Contract hauling question

[Diziet Sma]

I have to admit, I'd never really taken much account of time till I started contract hauling. I'm aware that the 'clock' whizzes forward occasionally -- obviously during jumps, but also when refuelling at a station, installing equipment and so forth -- but generally my eyes are elsewhere, so I've no real appreciation for how much time has actually passed. During normal flight, and when using the Witchdrive Fuel Injectors, the seconds seem to be ticking away at real-life speed. Time spent in any one system can thus be measured in mere minutes, if one sun-skims -- that's my understanding, anyway. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

The clock whizzes forward when you jump to save you from the boredom of sitting through dozens of hours of time staring at your screen whilst in witchspace.. Shorter whizzes save you from the joys of twiddling your thumbs for several hours while your latest bit of gear is installed, and so on.. Loading/unloading cargo adds time to the clock.. Docking using your docking computer will add 20 minutes (if I recall correctly) to your in-game time.. Manually docking will reduce this to 10 minutes, again, if I recall correctly.. Launching from the Station will add 10 minutes to the clock. (this is all about manoeuvring in and out of berths, getting launch clearance, and so forth)

In normal flight, injectoring, sun-skimming, combat, etc, time passes at real-time speeds.. So yes, with the  Fuel Station OXP installed, I can generally be in and out of any given system in 2-3 minutes. If you want to add a little more challenge, (and have wondered why, since the sun is so close to the planet, the locals haven't been barbecued beyond recognition) you can install the  Sensible Sun OXP, which will put the sun considerably further away from the planet, and increase the time required to sun-skim accordingly.. (it will generally be on the order of ten minutes extra flight-time, at Torus Drive speeds)

Edit to add: When it comes to route-planning, you might also get a big kick out of  ClymAngus' Vector Maps of the 8 charts. (Scroll to bottom of the page for the download links) As they are made using vector graphics, they can be zoomed into, to an amazing degree, without any pixelation/blockiness whatsoever..

[Cody]

WhzcCynaare?

One of Okti's test-pilot 'tools'... I'll let him explain it.

[Albee]

Docking using your docking computer will add 20 minutes (if I recall correctly) to your in-game time..

Youch! I do love my docking computer (in a platonic way, you understand) but 20 mins sounds a lot! Trouble is, I'm rubbish at manual docking -- I reckon I've scraped more tunnels than you people have had hot trumbles. Why don't they build the damn things bigger, is what I want to know? (The tunnels, not the trumbles).

Manually docking will reduce this to 10 minutes, again, if I recall correctly..

That makes me feel better. The docking computer is only losing me the difference.

If you want to add a little more challenge... you can install the  Sensible Sun OXP

I've thought about it, but chickened out. I suspect I'll be doing a lot more sun-skimming in future, especially if I plan on taking on more quintuple contracts (ha!).

Thanks for this info, by the way.

[another_commander]

The clock whizzes forward when you jump to save you from the boredom of sitting through dozens of hours of time staring at your screen whilst in witchspace

Faithful to the tradition of thread derailing, I take the opportunity to quickly note here that there are various schools of thought about this. The one I am a supporter of states that the time in witchspace lasts only for the few seconds the tunnel is shown. The rest of the time adjustment is done to compensate for temporal relativistic effects and, more specifically, the different ways that time passes inside and outside the wormhole, so it's not exactly whizzzing to save you from anything, but to satisfy a game mechanics situation. In effect, space farers in my Ooniverse age much slower than the rest of the population. I kind of like this approach, as it gives the game an "eeriness" twist that I find very fitting.

Other people have expressed different opinions of course, and there is even fiction written based on the premise that witchspace travel goes on for hours and days. There have been several discussions about it, one of which can be found here.

[cim]

Docking using your docking computer will add 20 minutes (if I recall correctly) to your in-game time.. Manually docking will reduce this to 10 minutes, again, if I recall correctly.. Launching from the Station will add 10 minutes to the clock.

Almost. Docking computer "fast"-dock (Shift+C) adds 20 minutes. Launch adds 10 minutes. Manually docking adds no special time. Using the docking computer for normal docking (C) adds no special time either, but it can take a few real time minutes to negotiate an approach slot and slowly fly in.

[Cody]

Other people have expressed different opinions of course, and there is even fiction written based on the premise that witchspace travel goes on for hours and days. There have been several discussions about it, one of which can be found here.

<chortles>

[Diziet Sma]

Docking using your docking computer will add 20 minutes (if I recall correctly) to your in-game time.. Manually docking will reduce this to 10 minutes, again, if I recall correctly.. Launching from the Station will add 10 minutes to the clock.

Almost. Docking computer "fast"-dock (Shift+C) adds 20 minutes. Launch adds 10 minutes. Manually docking adds no special time. Using the docking computer for normal docking (C) adds no special time either, but it can take a few real time minutes to negotiate an approach slot and slowly fly in.

Oops! 2 years away from Oolite has made the ol' braincells a touch rusty, it seems..

[another_commander]

Something strange is happening, though. When I type in a planet name on the long range chart and press ctrl+^ (with the Advanced Navigation Array fitted, of course), the route is shown, but there's no report. If I traverse the cross hairs manually to a planet, there is. I can force a report on my 'target' planet, however, by typing in the name, shifting the cross hairs to its neighbour, then shifting back. I presume this is a known issue, but is it a feature? A bug? Neither of the above?

It was a bug. It should be fixed in r4893. Tomorrow's nightly should contain the fix for those willing to test.

[Cody]

Interesting... if 'report' means distances and travel times to the target system (selected by typing its name), I was getting that info via '^', then hitting 'i' whilst still holding '^' down.

[Eric Walch]

It was a bug. It should be fixed in r4893. Tomorrow's nightly should contain the fix for those willing to test.

Fix confirmed.

If someone is interested how the contracts are generated:
The code selects one commodity for each system, based on availability. It selects a commodity that is plentiful available in the current system but rare in the destination. Only than it looks if it can be sold with a profit. If not, the whole system is left out. The system is also skipped when the time calculation from a few messages back does not gives a positive result. At the end it sometimes only leaves a few contracts from the possible 256.

Interesting is that the player can influence the offers. The contracts are generated when the player enters the contact screen for the first time. When he buys all of the most available commodity first, this will than be seen as a scarce commodity when he proceeds to the contract screen for the first time at that station. That way contracts for the just bought commodity are not created (or with a very low chance) and others are displayed instead.

On the other hand, when the commander first sells a commodity, so there is plenty on stock when entering the contract screen, it is more likely that you get a contract of that type. Nice way to force the increase of the lucrative contracts.

[Albee]

It was a bug. It should be fixed in r4893. Tomorrow's nightly should contain the fix for those willing to test.

Can somebody please explain how I access a 'nightly'?

If someone is interested how the contracts are generated...

There's more to this than meets the eye, isn't there? I'd assumed everything was just generated randomly.

Can you tell us what determines how much a cargo contract pays? It seems to vary wildly, and seems unrelated to both the cargo's value and the distance. Right now, I have these offers on the screen...

86t Machinery to Zaonce, within 9D 10H, premium 3715, pays 500
56t Machinery to Leleer, within 13D 1H, premium 2509, pays 600

Low-value contracts, as you see. On the other hand, I've just been paid 11000 for a 1-jump trip. I must admit, I find it all rather baffling.

[Cody]

Can somebody please explain how I access a 'nightly'?

Here... it'll install and run happily alongside Oolite 1.76.

[SandJ]

Low-value contracts, as you see. On the other hand, I've just been paid 11000 for a 1-jump trip. I must admit, I find it all rather baffling.

Have a look in your local paper at the small ads. Look at what people are asking for various items. Does it make any sense? I bet it doesn't.

Contract deliveries are supposed to be like that: some worthwhile that will go out of your way for, some a bit rubbish that you will only do if you are going that way anyway.

If all delivery contracts paid 10 Credits per Light year per tonne, it would be boring, wouldn't it?

Caveat mercator!

[Eric Walch]

Can somebody please explain how I access a 'nightly'?

For windows he link is given above. But I think you were on the mac. In that case go to the Mac area of this forum and you find it in the first topic. There are two people that build the nighties. One link is in the first message, the other in the third.

There's more to this than meets the eye, isn't there? I'd assumed everything was just generated randomly.

Can you tell us what determines how much a cargo contract pays? It seems to vary wildly, and seems unrelated to both the cargo's value and the distance. Right now, I have these offers on the screen...

It is in fact very straight forward. The actual price on the local market and the actual price on the destination market are used. There is nothing random to this part. Than you get a quantum discount of 10% + 0.1% for each ton with a total maximum of 35% discount.
That is the price of the owner of the goods. The contractor also wants a piece of the cake. Very complex, but try figuring out next code :

Code: Select all

				profit_for_trip = destination_cargo_value - (local_cargo_value - discount);
				// percentage taken by contracter
				contractors_share = 90 + destination_government;
				// less 5% per hop to a minimum of 10%
				contractors_share -= route_hops * 10;
				if (contractors_share < 10) contractors_share = 10;
					
				// what the contract pays
				fee = profit_for_trip * (100 - contractors_share) / 100;

So, when Aegidian wrote this stuff he tried to create a variation based on some sort of 'reality' and not on randomness.

[Albee]

Have a look in your local paper at the small ads. Look at what people are asking for various items. Does it make any sense? I bet it doesn't.

You're right, it doesn't. I think I'd just hoped mankind would be smarter in... whenever Oolite is set. (That doesn't make sense either, does it? It's not even our galaxy).

If all delivery contracts paid 10 Credits per Light year per tonne, it would be boring, wouldn't it?

Right again. I sometimes lose sight of the fact that it's a game. (It's the creators' fault for making it so immersive).

Can somebody please explain how I access a 'nightly'?

For windows the link is given above. But I think you were on the Mac. In that case go to the Mac area of this forum and you find it in the first topic.

Thanks, Eric; I'll do that.

Can you tell us what determines how much a cargo contract pays?

It is in fact very straight forward. The actual price on the local market and the actual price on the destination market are used. There is nothing random to this part.

This is me not paying close enough attention (again) to what's happening. With 200k+ in the 'bank' (peanuts to what some of you guys have, no doubt, but I've recently splashed out on a Boa Clipper with every goody under the sun) I don't have to worry about premiums, so I don't even spare them a glance. I've just done another 1-jump trip that paid 20k -- hauling gold, as I recall -- for which the premium was presumably sky high. It's these huge differences in pay that led me to assume it was random.

So, when Aegidian wrote this stuff he tried to create a variation based on some sort of 'reality' and not on randomness.

Whoever and wherever this Aegidian person is, can I just add my own personal thanks to the praise and honour that must surely have been heaped on him over the years? For decades I've been telling anyone who would listen (and most don't, especially the wife) that I just wish someone would write a modern version of Elite, the greatest computer game of all time... and here it is! Outstanding!