HUDs as buyable equipment

[Bugbear]

Just one of my random thoughts...

Considering that other items that are available for purchase can improve the ship, shouldn't a HUD also be a buyable item?

Bear in mind I have no idea if this is possible with Oolite's current configuration...

N.B. the Modular HUD option suggests a mechanism where different HUD components can be mixed and matched (pretty sure that this would require a whole redesign of the way that HUDs are put together, but again, just a random thought)

[another_commander]

I am pretty sure that this is an idea that is fully implementable within the current game scripting system. I find it quite nice too, by the way.

[Smivs]

Agreed. Nice idea and a pretty obvious one in retrospect....I'm surprised no-one has come up with it before
I didn't realise it was do-able, but if it is, great!

[snork]

hm, don't know, maybe.
But then one might want every hud to come with a (Jameson) savegame, so we can see and test any hud without having to cross half the galaxy sector first, to make the money and find a planet that has the hud in question.

Documentation and screenshots is nice, but ultimately I have to try a hud in flight for a while to see if it suits me.

Then again, it is the same with ships for me, where I am fine with how it is. hm.

[Killer Wolf]

:-/

firstly, i mostly see my Isis HUDs as being built into the ships i make. all the bar sizes etc are designed for the power levels they have etc : sticking them in another ship might screw up the display. a prime example would be the missile display. The MkVI is designed for a ship that carries 4 missiles, what happens if you buy it for a ship that can carry 6?

secondly, related, is that everyone who makes a HUD would have to configure it to handle every piece of equipment. I butchered CommonSense's HUD for the MkVI and he had a load of stuff in there for the shield capacitors and what else, stuff i don't use and shouldn't be on the MkVI.

i'm not saying it's not an idea to work towards, i'm just pointing out that personally as a designer i have enough on my plate getting a HUD done for my ships, i have little time, interest or inclination to try and make them cater for every possible ship variant someone might buy it for, so that kinda rules out my HUDs, and i suspect there may be others who feel the same. So yeah, some people might be thinking "big deal" but i'm just saying that anyone designing a HUD for this is going to have to take into account a Hell of a lot of variables.

[CommonSenseOTB]

Considering that other items that are available for purchase can improve the ship, shouldn't a HUD also be a buyable item?

No. I can see big problems with this. Particularily with huds that require scripting that shouldn't be left in the addons if the hud is not being used. Keep huds as separate addons with clear directions for how to use or add it to the addons and possible conflicts that may happen being explained. You will notice that equipment like the SniperCameraSystem for example is already buyable but for it to coexist at the same time in addons with other buyables that may interfere with its operation because they too use custom views or other similar scripting would be a recipe for disaster.

N.B. the Modular HUD option suggests a mechanism where different HUD components can be mixed and matched (pretty sure that this would require a whole redesign of the way that HUDs are put together, but again, just a random thought)

If you want true modular hud systems, the first place to start is some kind of "hud-overrides.plist" which will still mean that all hud makers will have to leave set places on the screen for different kinds of addon gadgets that separate equipment oxps will add. Equipment makers will need hud skills and hud makers will be restricted in how they can layout thier hud. Do you see the problem now? The alternative is for the hud maker himself to be aware of all the equipment and other options out there and try to incorporate more options himself. I'm already doing this. And what is your blinking hurry guys. I've got probably 3yrs+ worth of work and experimentation to do before there are enough options available that we need to look at organizing them. There are many things that I have thought up so far for hud design that you are not aware of nor will be for quite some time and there are things that will definately pop into my head as I design and discover them. To set a framework now would be to limit the future of potential hud design. Do you really want that?

As an artist I won't be told what I can and can't make and have to twist the hud to fit around others works. If you don't want to use my huds that is ok by me. We all prefer different things but that doesn't mean we aren't friends. If I have to think about every possible use, need, like, or dislike by others, well I wouldn't even get that far and no huds would have ever gotten made. For that matter no Picassos would ever have gotten made by democracy. Just one guy with a vision, passion and obsessed to do it because he is compelled by his creativity. Compelled. By every definition that is me. And that is art.

Look, I'm sorry to come out on this so strong and don't mean to offend. It's just that I thought you would all be satisfied by some of the crazy/cool stuff I'm working on right now and considering all the progress I've made in only six months. Instead what I see, especially the last 2 months, is the more I create, the more some people want. The pressure is just too much. Lay off. I'm at 120% as it is and I do have a life outside of this too. It is between christmas and new years. One has to relax and enjoy a bit during this time.

My official vote on this is no. And it shouldn't be looked at for quite some time until the groundwork is laid. But what does it matter. Do what you want. I hope you had a merry christmas and don't forget to spend time with your loved ones and friends through the new years festivities. I love all you guys, even if I don't show it very well. Party On! Be excellent to each other! Cheers!

[Bugbear]

Hey CSOTB, I totally understand where you're coming from. I have similar time pressures in my life also. It's a constant source of frustration in my life that I have all these ideas I would love to implement both in Oolite and with other projects I have on the go, but having only 24 hours a day to play with, something has to give.

Honestly, I don't know how all you OXP writers and developers do it.

My only intention with a lot of my postings is to subtly influence your ideas with my ramblings.

Oh and hope you had a Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year too. (Not to get sympathy, but I'm spending my New Year's with a cold to struggle through).

[Lestradae]

I wish something would be coming out of this poll.

70% for "yes or sometimes" concerning HUDs as items of equipment. 20% "no"'s. That speaks a clear language.

Years ago, I actually tried my hand at this but stopped as my skills were clearly not up to the task of equipment HUDs, and my experiment never led to more than a buggy test version on my computer.

It would be cool if there was an option in the game itself that allowed for HUDs to be equipment. Anyone else or am I alone with this?

[SandJ]

It would be cool if there was an option in the game itself that allowed for HUDs to be equipment. Anyone else or am I alone with this?

As in: "you can see the planet so you can find the space station for yourself, and GalCop says you shouldn't be getting into fights, so why do you need a HUD at all?"

So your SatNav HUD is an option, without it you have a very basic viewscreen showing energy levels and number of missiles nothing because you don't need them, and maybe a sticker on the viewscreen as a target view sight. Nothing else, not even a fuel gauge. Anything more than that has to be bought, but there are plenty to choose from. (I.e. install them as you do now, but it costs 100 Cr to activate it, and it can be destroyed.) If you want to sun-skim, head for the huge bright thing. If you want to dock, head for the big blue thing. If someone is shooting at you, just run away!

Do the rear / side parking sensors cameras and viewscreens also come as part of that package? After all, if you're a green Jameson in a basic ship with a battery-operated front pulse laser, what use are side/rear views anyway?

Presumably a basic planetary shuttle would have none of this stuff anyway, not even as an option.

It makes sense to me that the entire HUD could be an optional feature.

(The challenge would be for someone to produce a non-HUD so we can have a go at living with it.)

[cim]

(The challenge would be for someone to produce a non-HUD so we can have a go at living with it.)

Pause the game, press 'o' to make the HUD invisible, unpause the game.

[Cody]

(The challenge would be for someone to produce a non-HUD so we can have a go at living with it.)

Pause the game, press 'o' to make the HUD invisible, unpause the game.

I often do this, and cruise the 'lanes without the hud. It's 'interesting' in close-quarters dogfights!
I only wish I didn't have to pause the game... I need a toggle on the 'stick.

[SandJ]

Pause the game, press 'o' to make the HUD invisible, unpause the game.

Oh, how I hate it when that happens. I like to think I'm so clever.

[Bugbear]

Well I wasn't expecting this topic to be resurrected. Well I've considered the comments people have made both in favour and against the concept of a buyable HUD and so now I have a few more random thoughts to add...

Firstly, HUD != cockpit. A cockpit is a major overhaul of the interior of the control centre of the ship, so a cockpit upgrade / replacement would take a lot more time for the shipyard to perform - I'd probably expect a cockpit change to take a couple of days of game time.

A HUD change, on the other hand is a software update to the ship's control systems. A HUD change would probably only take a couple of hours of game time.

I think it is totally appropriate for some HUDs and cockpits to be exclusive to certain ships. As an added bonus, an exclusive custom cockpit would give players the perfect excuse to purchase the overpriced Fer De Lance - we would finally be able to see the fabled genuine walnut and leather interior.

From an external point of view, buyable HUDs / cockpits would mean that the player could download and store multiple HUD / cockpit OXPs in their AddOns folder without having to worry about conflicts as only one would be active at a time (how this would be done within code I don't know).

I found the concept of a Null HUD curious. In a way we already have modular HUD components - the Advanced Space Compass for example. There are some instruments that are probably useless (or at least have low value); my list would probably be topped with the roll/pitch/yaw indicators.

[BlauJ]

As a noob I'm afraid to vote on this, almost.
If there was a no need option I would vote for it.

I love it when different ships have their own HUD's. I particularly love the different status HUDs on the werewolf for example, it adds so much character. Its so darn cool when it switches into combat mode....... It tells you so much about the kind of ship it is.

HUD's let designers put a lot of background and character into a ship and the ooniverse, just as much as an in-character brochure or catalogue and the HUD is viewed far more. Changing HUD's for the sake of something to do in a space station seems to be missing a point.

The current status quo lets the HUD come alive as you buy different things; parts of the HUD are effectively bought during the game already. This also gently eases a noob jameson into oolite.

The only thing I would add to the HUD or at least to ships would be access to different Camera angles. The fuel scoop view on the Alt Griff Boa is a really cool touch, probably worth paying for so its fully appreciated.

[maik]

A HUD change, on the other hand is a software update to the ship's control systems. A HUD change would probably only take a couple of hours of game time.

Mostly yes. Unless the HUD is dependent on new sensors which need installation.