Multiple machines

[Ganelon]

Agreed, ClymAngus. I wouldn't care for the join line being in the middle of the view screen either. Might be ok for a freighter or cab, but not good for any sort of fighting ship. The "triple head" display DaddyHoggy mentioned sounds cool, but definitely not in my budget at the moment. LOL

I wasn't thinking of an extra display to show more views of 3d space, but to display the 2d elements we usually have on the HUD, like the scanner, compass, speed/fuel/temp/etc. For that matter, if the communications could be rerouted of, or even if the text of them to the screen could just be turned off when the speech synth option is on, that might be cool. Maybe still have the key to show messages if you couldn't make out the synth or a message came through at a real busy moment.

I've never thought of the current display as like a front "windshield" much. I think of it as a video display for cameras mounted somewhere on the hull, and I use the hi-hat switch on my joystick a lot to check the views around the ship. But with an HUD showing much critical info and message scrolling and etc, I feel sometimes it's a bit intrusive on things like watching where you're going or shooting. I figured I'd ask just in case there was some relatively simple way the data for some of the 2d displays could be piped out to another machine. I don't know about the scanner, but most of the things like speed/fuel/temp/shield would be just one number each, and it could be purely one-way communication.

Probably just a pipe dream. Nothing most players would want or make use of at this time. But maybe someday. <shrugs>

[Kaks]

Or, you could see if you can make your dream a reality!

Not having your hardware setup, it would be quite difficult for others to figure out what works best for you, but you could code what you need, and - once it works the way you want it to - you can always share the code with the community, for everybody to try out!

[DaddyHoggy]

Agreed, ClymAngus. I wouldn't care for the join line being in the middle of the view screen either. Might be ok for a freighter or cab, but not good for any sort of fighting ship. The "triple head" display DaddyHoggy mentioned sounds cool, but definitely not in my budget at the moment. LOL

I wasn't thinking of an extra display to show more views of 3d space, but to display the 2d elements we usually have on the HUD, like the scanner, compass, speed/fuel/temp/etc. For that matter, if the communications could be rerouted of, or even if the text of them to the screen could just be turned off when the speech synth option is on, that might be cool. Maybe still have the key to show messages if you couldn't make out the synth or a message came through at a real busy moment.

I've never thought of the current display as like a front "windshield" much. I think of it as a video display for cameras mounted somewhere on the hull, and I use the hi-hat switch on my joystick a lot to check the views around the ship. But with an HUD showing much critical info and message scrolling and etc, I feel sometimes it's a bit intrusive on things like watching where you're going or shooting. I figured I'd ask just in case there was some relatively simple way the data for some of the 2d displays could be piped out to another machine. I don't know about the scanner, but most of the things like speed/fuel/temp/shield would be just one number each, and it could be purely one-way communication.

Probably just a pipe dream. Nothing most players would want or make use of at this time. But maybe someday. <shrugs>

You want one of these: http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebP ... ce=froogle

or these: http://www.eclipsecomputers.com/product ... H2GO&af=50

Depending on whether you're using VGA or DVI.

And then you end up with something like this:



or this



Which (if you click on the link - too big to put on the BB) - give this: http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21 ... 0x1024.png

But note, I did this at work, I too have no cash to do this at home, but I'm happy to help prove the capabilities of Oolite where I can!

[Smivs]

I could live with that

[ClymAngus]

If someone were to try and run a second machine to do something interesting, I still think it shouldnt be another view, or half of a screen. I just doesnt make sense. Far better would be, as I think Clym is saying, to run something else, like a comms console or the short range chart which could be pretty independant and maybe communicate with a webservice or corba or whatever on the master machine.

Well this is the problem with this particular thread, some solutions COULD be multi-machine others, are just extra polling programmes that run independent of the main oolite programme. I would argue
that IF it were possible to put someone in a spacially accurate position (all be it faked), through accurate monitor mounting at the cardinal points then you would get considerably more out of the
gaming experience. Unfortunately THAT is pure pie in the sky on my part. For starters your talking 4 monitors (2 machines) that would have to poll one processor to get all it's spacial information from. Now I know oolite ain't that heavy but still. That's a spicy meat ball

The other way of doing multiple machines is of course by running anything completely independent of the game. That could be done. A second computer just running a pdf with you current galaxy map in it would add to atmos and not impact on your game.

It's a bit of a lavish way of doing things.

I don't know about the scanner,

You have to go and pick the one thing that would be the coolest thing to have on a separate monitor didn't you?

You want one of these: http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebP ... ce=froogle

I think I almost lost bowel control there for a second. OK

£240.84 Inc VAT for the triple splitter (pc or mac)

3 flat screen dells (20 and a bit ish size)

£220 x3

maybe a mimi mini (if you have an intel mac)

£100

About a grand.

Ouchy.

[DaddyHoggy]

Don't forget the relatively expensive gfx card needed to be able to put enough pixels down across a 3840x1024 screen too...

The PC/monitors/TH2G/X52Pro setup in the picture cost in total about £2.5K (monitors are only 17" and bought before 16:9 took over from 4:3 and 4:3 monitors started going up in price again - so I think they were *only* £110 each)

We have two of them - normally used to mimic a AH64 cockpit layout.

[Ganelon]

A second computer just running a pdf with you current galaxy map in it would add to atmos and not impact on your game.

I do that already. With your lovely vector maps, in fact! I have them on a laptop off to the side of the desktop I use for gaming. It doesn't have a very large screen so I'm usually zoomed in about 300% but it shows the local region of the map quite nicely rather than having to f6/click/f7 nearby locations when deciding on the next jump.

Kudos on the vector maps, btw.

[ClymAngus]

A second computer just running a pdf with you current galaxy map in it would add to atmos and not impact on your game.

I do that already. With your lovely vector maps, in fact! I have them on a laptop off to the side of the desktop I use for gaming. It doesn't have a very large screen so I'm usually zoomed in about 300% but it shows the local region of the map quite nicely rather than having to f6/click/f7 nearby locations when deciding on the next jump.

Kudos on the vector maps, btw.

Ooo ta! I'll take a quick shifty at what I can poll out of oolite whilst it's running. It will be a back burner project however. (my java voodoo isn't strong)

[Ganelon]

Having looked over the Oolite JavaScript Reference on the wiki a bit, it looks like it might be possible to at least get the values that way. Like if one wanted a fuel gauge, for example, use a statement like

forwardShield : Number read

.. to get the numeric value. Then export it by whatever means to a program on the other machine. Then do whatever with it to get it into the form one wants to display. To have it as a %age, for example, that value divided by the value from

maxForwardShield : Number read

..times 100 would give a value that could be put on the screen of the other machine as a "digital readout" of the status of the forward shield. That could be used by itself or to supplement a bar or dial reading generated from the same data.

I'm probably oversimplifying the process a good bit, I'm just sort of "black boxing" at this point to get an idea of what basic steps would be necessary so I can at least figure out what I'd need to learn to be able to get it to work.

I know almost no java at this time. I used to program a bit, but it was mostly back in the very old days in BASIC and some Fortran and etc. Other than that, I've done some html and some building/coding on MUSHes in years gone by. At present I've been reading through the files of some of the OXPs and the wiki material to get a bit of a handle on how the nuts and bolts of the game actually work.

As such, I don't expect to get this figured out tomorrow or even any time very soon. But it at least serves as sufficient motive to study the code and processes of the game a bit. If nothing else, it increases one's appreciation for the amount of work and ingenuity that go into Oolite.

[mvdw]

I wasn't thinking of an extra display to show more views of 3d space, but to display the 2d elements we usually have on the HUD, like the scanner, compass, speed/fuel/temp/etc. For that matter, if the communications could be rerouted of, or even if the text of them to the screen could just be turned off when the speech synth option is on, that might be cool. Maybe still have the key to show messages if you couldn't make out the synth or a message came through at a real busy moment.

What would be *really cool* would be to use (say) an iPad as the secondary display, and use the touch-screen features for example for arming missiles (touch a missile to arm that type, for example - makes it easier to have multiple pylon-mounted weapons). Would also allow easier targetting.

Also, the display/interface could have buttons for different weapons/features... Ahh, but I dream; this would require I am sure a LOT of work, and fundamental architecture changes to the oolite code...

[Ganelon]

Well, I don't know a thing about iPads or how they work..

But something like what I think you're talking about could be done if one could figure out how to "break out" the "instruments" part of the display to another screen.

Rather than dressing up the displays with graphics, it'd be fairly easy to make a mask of something like masonite or painted plexiglass or plastic or whatever that would lay over the screen that shows the instrument displays. That was the direction I'd been thinking, to make an instrument panel that would contain the data and would look like several different instruments mounted in a physical panel. Add another layer of material to cover any wires from switches one might want to add, then another layer in pieces as "bezels" and etc, and a combination instrument and control panel could exist as a physical item where you reach out and press a button next to the missile display to cycle to the next missile. Or where you press a button on the bezel around the compass to cycle it to the next destination. Or press a button next to bezel around the main scanner to change the zoom level and the scanner as well as a smaller display near it showing the current zoom level would respond.

The controls would not have to take any changes to the core, I don't think. It could be done in hardware by hacking an old computer keyboard to wire some switches in place of keys, and placing the switches where one wanted them on the physical control panel(s). That's common enough practice among flight sim hobbyists building a cockpit to play in, a "sim pit".

I agree, it probably *could* be done with an iPad, but I have never owned or tinkered with one, and wouldn't know where to start so far as touchscreen interfaces and so on. I was thinking more along the lines of something physical, large and clunky, like converting a computer desk into a section of an Oolite ship cockpit. LOL Or heck, as long as one is dreaming, maybe something like Davidtq did..

https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?t=6307

..and convert a small spare room into a full flight deck, but with functional control panels and instrument panels laid out around you. That's maybe more on the order of "far flung fantasy" than a dream, but it wouldn't be impossible. Flight simmers have done it, even to the point of building whole Airbus or other big jet airliner command decks into a room.

[DaddyHoggy]

22" iiyama touch-screen (1920x1080p) (£225 Scan) - running Java powered dials and switches, we've started to use these at work - very nice.

[Ganelon]

That is some serious drool material, DaddyHoggy. Glass cockpit and then some!

Way beyond any budget I'd ever be likely to pull together, but still utterly awesome.

[CommonSenseOTB]

Yeah, this is kind of a thread resurrection but the things talked about make it sensible to post here.

Reading this gives me an idea as to how to get a separate gauges display on existing oolite, if some specific hardware exists. The idea is this: one could create a hud that is the size of the screen that is scripted to display the guages and black out what's behind them...every second frame. Does hardware exist that could divide every second frame between 2 different monitors? This is sort of how 3-D LCD glasses work, showing the left eye the left view and the right eye the right view. Could 2 monitors recieve alternate frames to keep the individual views separate using some hardware, if such hardware exists?

Just a crazy thought.

If such hardware exists then it could make Ganelon's idea reality just by making a hud addon using existing oolite.

[DaddyHoggy]

With the right drivers Nvidia Graphics cards can sort of do this already - they can turn 2D games into 3D games by rendering two different viewpoints every other frame (so, for example 30 fps per eye) and then the Nvidia active shutter glasses flicker at the same frame rate - voila - 2D game runs as 3D - the problem - only works with DirectX (I know because we've fudged it with Microsoft ESP at work, but it doesn't work with X-Plane because X-Plane uses OpenGL) so it won't work with Oolite even if you could persuade Oolite to work this way - and again, that's to a single monitor not two different images alternating on two different screens.

You can do some fairly amazing things with an Nvidia Quadro Plex box - but you're talking about £8000 for a graphics "card"*


HTH

DH

* actually a ruddy great box with 2 (or 4) top end** Quadro FX graphics cards in it and some very nice electronics to genlock all the individual screen renderings together.

** i.e. 16GB of dedicated Graphics memory!