Blocky ship sizes

[Ironfist]

Following on from a partial discussion in https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10777 This thread is looking at the available space inside ships with a much blockier shape than is usual for Oolite.
I have been designing a series of ships of differing sizes for differing roles.
The biggest is a carrier designed to hold 6 or so smallish ships to act as a mother for a group like that in Resistance Commander OXP. The carrier is just small enough to dock in a station or a behemoth, being 189 x 61.6 x 236. With a bit of care I can even dock it manually at a station!!
So here is a set of images to illustrate that it is easily to get 6 or more ships docked and still have space to land a small shuttle or something as well.
Here is the rear of the carrier showing the docking bay, each of the red cuboids are sized to the bounding box of the gunship variant in the ship series. The one on the roof is forward of the docking bay illustrating how much space is forward of the bay.

[img=http://s1.postimage.org/24tmknf9g/Carrier_rear.jpg]

This one shows a better view of the top.
[img=http://s1.postimage.org/24xhhskqs/carrier_top.jpg]

Whilst these ships are relatively small many of the escort ships in the current catalogue would also fit,
things like the viper, asp even the occasional Fer-de-Lance.

So what do people think?

Ironfist

[Smivs]

Hi again,
I actually like this idea a lot, which is why I keep picking holes in it
One consideration is that although they might physically fit into the space, there is a difference between transporting and carrying....a carrier has to be able to launch the small ships, and therefore there needs to be room to move them from the 'hanger' area to a launchbay/dock. It goes beyond simply 'how many can I squeeze in?' It's a bit like a car transporter - you can carry around 10 cars on a modern transporter, but you can't drive any one off at any given time, and I can see a similar problem here if you're not careful.
Another thought I had concerns all the rest of the 'stuff' the carrier needs. If you look at one of the Oolite freighters, the cargo space takes up a very small proportion of the internal space. The rest is stuff like engines, power units, and other equipment and machinery, plus fuel tanks. Also crew-space is needed. All this stuff, or most of it if you're using external engines will still have to go inside your carrier, and will take up the same amount of room, presumably.
Perhaps a more modest approach would be more feasable, maybe like a modern-day Frigate carrying one or two helicopters. I could see a carrier of the size you're thinking working with perhaps two or three small fighters, and indeed this is a role that is completely un-represented in the game. We have big carriers already, but a dockable unit with 2-3 fighters sounds like a rapid-reaction assault or S&R unit and is something the game could benefit from, and is believable.
Great idea, as I said...keep us posted.

[SandJ]

there is a difference between transporting and carrying... a carrier has to be able to launch the small ships, and therefore there needs to be room to move them from the 'hanger' area to a launchbay/dock.

This is zero-G space.

If you want to carry a smaller ship, get it alongside and strap it on with bungee cords, then bolt it down. To "launch" it, undo the bolts, get yourself a firm handhold and give it a shove.

Provided it is attached to a suitable bit of superstructure, any old bit of the ship will do as the 'hangar'.

And in zero-G, you only have to overcome the gravitational attraction of the mothership and the smaller ship, and unless we're talking about Galactic Navy supercarriers, a small child could do that.

[Smivs]

Er, yes but if you strap them outside a ship that only just fits in a docking port...

[Ironfist]

Hi Smivs,
Thanks for comments. After all that is what these forums are for is it not. I may be trying to get a gallon in a pint pot.

Hi SandJ,
I once saw a carpark that had mechanical stacking like a giant warehouse to allow better packing than could be achieved by normal means. It would mean that it would be slower to launch ships that where not in the docking bay - but that is only a timing problem.

Other problems that I need to consider are largely ones of volume, since we have no real idea how much space things take up. Does anyone know what the maximum fuel that can be obtained from a fuel pod?
It would give a first off approximation at least. Then there is the question of in-flight refuelling - should it be allowed?

Guys, keep throwing bricks at this idea - it is the only way forward!

Ironfist

[Smivs]

Coincidentally I was thinking of those car parks as well. Why have a dock? Could the fighters not be in (space-efficient) bays which have elevators to move the fighters to the outside of the hull. They could launch from there and then land back on the elevator which lowers them back into the 'garage'. That way you could really 'sardine' them in.

[Ramirez]

This thread reminded me of something:

This is the Aviamatka-PVO: 1 x Tupolev TB-3 mothership, 2 x Polikarpov I-5 biplanes, 2 x Polikarpov I-16 monoplanes and a Grigorovich I-Z. First flight November 1935.

[Ganelon]

Maybe instead of external engine nacelles or whatever for a mothership, if at least some of the escorts docked in clamps on the outside it could free up some internal "cargo" space for other ships. While in the docking clamps, the ships could function as engine nacelles, and help the speed of the mothership. When there's trouble, they'd undock and of course the mothership would be very slow, comparatively. But the bigger mothership might also pack a turret or two and function more as a small portable station, strategically. The squadron would usually engage the objective while the mothership could hang back and use missiles and sniping shots to take enemy fighters off the aquadron's tails while functioning as the command (player) unit.

All the normally external ships could undock when the mothership and squadron need to dock at a station. If a normally external ship was lost, one of the ships usually docked in the mothership's hold would take it's place to keep mama bird's speed up for non-combat travel.

But basically, since Oolite ships under normal circumstances are reactor powered, they don't consume fuel except for injector use and jumps. One wouldn't need to carry extra fuel, engines, or life support gear. When they're locked in clamps on the hull, they'd function as slaved extra engines as well as crew quarters (their NPC pilots could sleep in them). Jumps shouldn't be a problem since several ships can jump through one hole anyway, no reason why it'd be any harder if they're locked together. The mothership isn't going to need the extra bit of speed for station docking anyway, so the main advantage would be to speed up travel times when not in combat a bit, or maybe getting into position a little quicker at an objective. As soon as the cluster breaks up and the external ships go into combat, the mothership would be the usual slower and more vulnerable target.

[Smivs]

That's off-the-wall, and totally inspired!

[Ironfist]

It certainly is, currently the docking bay is not big enough to accommodate a cobra but top and bottom decks are. I will give some time to think of some docking clamps that would allow a cobra to be neatly docked so the engines are nicely aligned.

Ramirez - it is always said in the military research area that ideas keep coming round it is just the technology that changes. Nice picture find.

Ironfist

[Makara]

If you want to carry a smaller ship, get it alongside and strap it on with bungee cords, then bolt it down. To "launch" it, undo the bolts, get yourself a firm handhold and give it a shove.

Provided it is attached to a suitable bit of superstructure, any old bit of the ship will do as the 'hangar'.

That was my first thought too, although more a flashback...

Although I think you are really going to be looking at custom built-in escorts either way, a round hole can be much smaller for a round peg than if it has to accommodate all possible peg shapes. So it would be more of an overt version of the worm attack drones you can encounter sometimes, although with beefier sub-craft.

[Alex]

This is Oolite!

No actual physics Apply except ooo physy stuff.

So If i want to fly a tardis that's my choice.'

You don't get much bocker than "Whos' tardis"

So for the first time the ooniveres pyhisics aint fixed.

Again.

If you want a ship the size of a galaxy. Go ahead.
If you want one the size of an irritant on a knatts bollock hair. Go ahead.

This is Oolite fly what you want with the physics you want.

Most Cmmdrs. Fly what they want. regardless of reality.

If you want to create a ship, remember 3 zones X, Y, Z.

If you make a tardis.

I'll fly that.
But has to have time slip/jump ability.

They time lords have a lot to answer for!

[Ironfist]

Alex,

i did something very close to a Tardis as a first ship. A cuboid with differing coloured faces that I could use to get the format of the required files sorted out. Needless to say it flew. Used it to work out sizes for things as well.

The ability to produce your own Ooniverse is great fun, so in mine inertia has some effect - no problem for other uses of course.

Thanks for observations.

Ironfist