"Wyvern" Ship Collaboration Proposal

[Smivs]

Dragonfire, i really don't want to seem negative here, but this concept of a series of ships needs thinking through.
I'll admit I've so far only looked at the first two ships in detail.

The trader version with 100tTC capacity is a much higher spec than the Boa 2. It is going to have to be vast to fit all that stuff in and a ship that large is not going to have the manoevreability you suggest. Also it should cost much more. I'd suggest around 1million credits is not too much.
The bounty hunter version, if based on the same hull therefore is a nonsense. A proper bounty hunter is a guy who don't give a fig about trading/salvaging stuff, a guy who earn a crust doing top-level Random Hits, a guy who relies on skill and expertise rather than tossing all kinds of fancy missiles at their quarry. These are guys who want a small, fast, highly manoevreable ship to get in fast, do the job and get out again. he doesn't want or need a ship the size of a Python or Boa (big target!). And as I've said, a ship that size cannot be as fast and manoevreable as you suggest without going way outside believeability.
The Cobra 3 is the ship we all start with, and there's a reason for that. It's a good all-rounder, and a good reference point to start with. Bigger than a Cobra means (normally) slower and less responsive, smaller normally means faster and more responsive. There is obviously a bit of leeway, and by say losing some cargo space a Cobby could be made faster. But what you're suggesting is a Python that can be turned into an Asp, a Cobra, an Anaconda. Honestly, it doesn't make any sense to me at all.
If you are going to design from scratch, I'd suggest a ship maybe a little bigger than a Cobby 3, but with a more voluminous shape, and then it could become most of the ships you want, although all aspects of the spec would need to be toned down, and prices should probably be a lot higher.

[Dragonfire]

I appreciate your opinion, and I'll keep it in mind, but I respectfully disagree. I've gotten much different information from a number of other bounty hunters (of which I AM one). There is more to put in a pylon mount than just a typical missile.

By the by, the Boa Class Cruiser has a 175 TC. I only have a 100 TC.

Anyway, at the top, I did mention that a special wiring setup in this series of ships allowed for the unusual speed. That's what sets the Wyverns apart. We don't need another slow freighter, but we don't need another fast mini-ship. We need something fast AND useful.

I do agree with the price, though. With the special wiring system, I would think that a million would be a very good price. It would be greater, of course, for the Wyvern White. Though it isn't available to players, the Wyvern Black would probably cost closer to two or three million.

[Smivs]

We all have opinions and yours are as valid as mine, certainly. And i fully agree about the availability of small fast, and big slow ships. There is a good selection available.
But a 'jack-of-all-trades' as you are suggesting is the Holy Grail of Oolite. And it's never really been done (and I suggest cannot be done) for all the reasons I have mentioned. It would require a paradox. Unless you are prepared to ignore the conventional wisdom almost all of us adhere to, you cannot have a truly fast, manoevreable ship which also has a large(ish) cargo hold (100+TC) and all the gear. At any price.
Look again at the Boa 2. It's an excellent all-rounder, better than the Cobby 3 in my opinion, and the closest of the core ships to what you're proposing. I could almost live with halving it's cargo to fit mega-engines (an extension of what I did with the Clipper), but even then a realistic max speed would be more like 0.4 - 0.45LM, not the 6 you are suggesting. And that would be way too fast for many people to accept.
As a concept, I really do like the idea. A 'modular' ship which can be tuned and tailored for various roles is a great idea, and I genuinely wish you well with it. Heck, I might even like to have a go at texturing it. But it needs a great deal of thought, and more than anything else a great deal of realism and common sense applied.
For instance 'special wiring that makes it go faster' sounds a bit too much like magic to me. Bigger engines make things go faster.

[Capt. Murphy]

Don't neglect thrust in your ship specs.

It's a good way to balance out some of the bigger ships - they might have a great top speed, but take a long time to get to it because of their mass (low thrust value), and a long time to slow down again.

Plus a nifty little fighter might have a high thrust - stop on a dime and accelerate fast if it's time to make a strategic exit (or when your Random Hit kill throws a last second Q bomb), but doesn't necessarily need a silly top speed.

From a player point of view it makes a very distinct difference to 'handling'.

[Thargoid]

That's what the Wyvern White is for. It IS an uber-ship.

So...what prices do you propose for the ships? I'm open to suggestions.

I'd multiply your original ones by around 2-3x or so. Also I'd make them quite rare (their role weightings for the NPC ones and the chance and/or techlevel keys in shipyard.plist for the player one), so obtaining one or seeing one becomes more of a challenge than buying a stock Cobbie3. So basically in fair agreement to your subsequent comment above.

Some of the ships are broadly similar in spec to the Vortex, which I tagged at 2mil and a 5% chance.

Aside from that they look fun. Personally I enjoy just blasting things at times without too much concern - which may of course be why I wrote the Vortex in the first place (that and to get a few stray equipment/capability ideas out of my head and into some use).

The thrust idea is a good one, as also is perhaps making some equipment unusable (incompatible) with them to dull some edges a bit.

[Wyvern Mommy]

for a bounty hunter, any cargo capacity that exceeds the expected loot is just a waste of ship mass and volume.
for a trader, any piece of equipment not needed critically, not only takes up space that could be used to earn another buck, it also costs to aquire and to maintain.

100 TC is simply too much for the ship to be designed with bounty hunting in mind. and if it's a converted freighter, the additional equipment, engines, weapons, shields and whatnot, would be installed in surplus cargo space.

so the question here is, how much TCs worth would your upgrade cost? i would say quite a lot.

[Dragonfire]

I agree with you there. I'll make it a small default cargo bay on the Red, and just have a cargo bay extension for hunter/merchants like me.

In response to the weight vs. speed concerns, see this post.

I will update the specs later to also lower the maneuverability. But as you read the above linked post, you'll see my justification for the speed. As per Capt. Murphey's advice, I'll also add in thrust specs. I'll increase the price, and consider making some equipment incompatible (though, no such limitations for the Black and White, due to their "uber" status).

[Wildeblood]

...I will update the specs later to also lower the maneuverability...

You see, you're already letting them wear you down. Soon your proposal for an uber ship will be just another fighter with nothing particularly special about it. What the ooniverse needs is a player-flyable Death Star, not more of these piddly little fighters. Let's get into some serious planet-smashing, E.E. Smith style.

[Dragonfire]

No, actually, they do have a point about the maneuverability, from a scientific standpoint. I'm a semi-realist. However, I am DEFINITELY going to make sure that the Wyvern White is something to be feared. You'll get your uber-ship, I promise.

[Fatleaf]

You see, you're already letting them wear you down. Soon your proposal for an uber ship will be just another fighter with nothing particularly special about it. What the ooniverse needs is a player-flyable Death Star, not more of these piddly little fighters. Let's get into some serious planet-smashing, E.E. Smith style.

I don't understand why you are turning this into a "them" Vs "us" war of attrition. The point we are making is that what makes Oolite consistently fun and enjoyable is BALANCE. With a ship that just trounced over everything else without too much effort would become very boring very quickly. What you call compromise we call maturity.

[Dragonfire]

Well, here's a compromise possibility - what if I created two "flavors" of this OXP - one with the limitations that some want, and the other with the uber ship design others (including you and I) want. That way, everyone wins.

[Wildeblood]

It's not about 'them vs us", don't be silly. It's a game, it's got to be enjoyable. If the kid wants an uber-ship, he should have an uber-ship. Simples.

[Wyvern Mommy]

It's not about 'them vs us", don't be silly. It's a game, it's got to be enjoyable. If the kid wants an uber-ship, he should have an uber-ship. Simples.

it ain't about über-ship or not. if that's what he wants, he can have all the übercity possible and no argument about it.

what i for one call immaturity, is to propose an über-ship and justify it's specs as reasonable.

[Dragonfire]

Exactly, Wildeblood. And if others want a "realistic" ship, they should have a realistic ship. I just want to make sure this project fits into everyone's Ooniverse without the debate carrying on. I reeeealy want an uber-ship myself, but I can understand the desire for something more limited, as silly as it may sound to some. And, hey, to make the two versions, it takes, what, an extra five minutes of my time.

So, that in mind, here are the updated (again) specs for both. Input still appreciated, but only on the OXP YOU want (if you want the "realist" version, don't give input on the "Uber" version, and visa versa).

I have not yet figured out the thrust or incompatible equipment. Any suggestions there?

--
"Realist Version"

Dark Sky Industries
WYVERN SERIES

Dark Sky is the inventor of DARC - "Dragonbreath Automated ReCharge", a system that gives their ships a superior recharge rate. New engine technology makes these ships faster than most in their category.

Red Wyvern
Designed for bounty hunters, the Red Wyvern is heavily armed, with a small cargo bay for maximum speed.

Cargo Capacity: 10 TC
Cargo Bay Extension: 40 TC
Maximum Speed: 0.55
Maneuverability:
Roll: 1.0
Pitch: 0.6
Energy Banks: 8
Energy recharge rate: 7.0
Gun Mounts: Fore, Aft, Starboard, Port, Plasma Turrets
Missile Slots: 8
Shield Boosters available: Yes
Military Shields available: Yes
Hyperspace capable: Yes
Available to player: Yes
Base Price: 2300000
Tech Level: 8
Chance: 0.2

Green Wyvern
The Green Wyvern is designed with merchants in mind. A large cargo bay and good speed are first in priority. This ship is well armed, though not near as heavily some other models.

Cargo Capacity: 100
Cargo Bay Extension: 25
Maximum Speed: 0.45
Maneuverability:
Roll: 0.8
Pitch: 0.4
Energy Banks: 8
Energy recharge rate: 7.0
Gun Mounts: Fore, Aft, Plasma Turrets
Missile Slots: 4
Shield Boosters available: Yes
Military Shields available: Yes
Hyperspace capable: Yes
Available to player: Yes
Base Price: 2300000
Tech Level: 8
Chance: 0.2

Blue Wyvern
Specially designed for miners, the Blue Wyvern has a moderate cargo bay, but drops many pylon mounts in favor of greater speed than the standard merchant model. In light of the potentially precious cargo, lasers are top priority aboard this vessel.

Cargo Capacity: 50
Cargo Bay Extension: 25
Maximum Speed: 0.50
Maneuverability:
Roll: 0.9
Pitch: 0.5
Energy Banks: 8
Energy recharge rate: 7.0
Gun Mounts: Fore, Aft, Starboard, Port
Missile Slots: 2
Shield Boosters available: Yes
Military Shields available: Yes
Hyperspace capable: Yes
Available to player: Yes
Base Price: 2300000
Tech Level: 8
Chance: 0.2

White Wyvern
A rare, and very expensive version of the Wyvern, designed to combat the Black Wyvern threat. This model is so dangerous that GalCop closely monitors the sale of each and every one of them. Often considered an "uber ship", the sales are such that pirates have yet to get their hands on one. And, as such, any pirate who DOES get one, immediately has a VERY sizable bounty on their heads.

(This model is about 1/3 bigger than the standard models)

Cargo Capacity: 5
Cargo Bay Extension: N/A
Maximum Speed: 0.60
Maneuverability:
Roll: 0.7
Pitch: 0.7
Energy Banks: 10
Energy Recharge Rate: 8.0
Gun Mounts: Fore, Aft, Starboard, Port, Plasma Turrets
Missile Slots: 6
Shield Boosters available: Yes
Military Shields available: Yes
Hyperspace capable: Yes
Available to player: Yes
Base Price: 3000000
Tech Level: 10
Chance: 0.1
CLEAN RECORD REQUIRED

Black Wyvern
Though this ship was designed special for military use, the blueprints were stolen, and the ship was built without company blessing or supervision in shady rock hermits. Due to this, the Black Wyvern is very hard to come by - the company often intercepts and destroys any models that appear on the market. GalCop also considers these ships to be illegal.

(This model is about 1/3 bigger than the standard models)

Cargo Capacity: 5
Cargo Bay Extension: N/A
Maximum Speed: 0.65
Maneuverability:
Roll: 0.8
Pitch: 0.8
Energy Banks: 10
Energy Recharge Rate: 7.5
Gun Mounts: Fore, Aft, Starboard, Port, Plasma Turrets
Missile Slots: 6
Shield Boosters available: Yes
Military Shields available: Yes
Hyperspace capable: Yes
Available to player: Yes
Base Price: 50000000
Chance: 0.0
(Can only be purchased "black market" via mission)

--
"Uber Version"

Dark Sky Industries
WYVERN SERIES

Dark Sky is the inventor of DARC - "Dragonbreath Automated ReCharge", a system that gives their ships a superior recharge rate. New engine technology makes these ships faster than most in their category.

Red Wyvern
Designed for bounty hunters, the Red Wyvern is heavily armed, with a small cargo bay for maximum speed.

Cargo Capacity: 10 TC
Cargo Bay Extension: 40 TC
Maximum Speed: 0.7
Maneuverability:
Roll: 1.0
Pitch: 1.0
Energy Banks: 8
Energy recharge rate: 7.0
Gun Mounts: Fore, Aft, Starboard, Port, Plasma Turrets
Missile Slots: 8
Shield Boosters available: Yes
Military Shields available: Yes
Hyperspace capable: Yes
Available to player: Yes
Base Price: 2300000
Tech Level: 8
Chance: 0.2

Green Wyvern
The Green Wyvern is designed with merchants in mind. A large cargo bay and good speed are first in priority. This ship is well armed, though not near as heavily some other models.

Cargo Capacity: 100
Cargo Bay Extension: 25
Maximum Speed: 0.7
Maneuverability:
Roll: 1.0
Pitch: 1.0
Energy Banks: 8
Energy recharge rate: 7.0
Gun Mounts: Fore, Aft, Plasma Turrets
Missile Slots: 4
Shield Boosters available: Yes
Military Shields available: Yes
Hyperspace capable: Yes
Available to player: Yes
Base Price: 2300000
Tech Level: 8
Chance: 0.2

Blue Wyvern
Specially designed for miners, the Blue Wyvern has a moderate cargo bay, but drops many pylon mounts in favor of greater speed than the standard merchant model. In light of the potentially precious cargo, lasers are top priority aboard this vessel.

Cargo Capacity: 50
Cargo Bay Extension: 25
Maximum Speed: 0.7
Maneuverability:
Roll: 1.0
Pitch: 1.0
Energy Banks: 8
Energy recharge rate: 7.0
Gun Mounts: Fore, Aft, Starboard, Port
Missile Slots: 2
Shield Boosters available: Yes
Military Shields available: Yes
Hyperspace capable: Yes
Available to player: Yes
Base Price: 2300000
Tech Level: 8
Chance: 0.2

White Wyvern
A rare, and very expensive version of the Wyvern, designed to combat the Black Wyvern threat. This model is so dangerous that GalCop closely monitors the sale of each and every one of them. Often considered an "uber ship", the sales are such that pirates have yet to get their hands on one. And, as such, any pirate who DOES get one, immediately has a VERY sizable bounty on their heads.

(This model is about 1/3 bigger than the standard models)

Cargo Capacity: 5
Cargo Bay Extension: 170
Maximum Speed: 0.7
Maneuverability:
Roll: 1.0
Pitch: 1.0
Energy Banks: 10
Energy Recharge Rate: 8.0
Gun Mounts: Fore, Aft, Starboard, Port, Plasma Turrets
Missile Slots: 6
Shield Boosters available: Yes
Military Shields available: Yes
Hyperspace capable: Yes
Available to player: Yes
Base Price: 3000000
Tech Level: 10
Chance: 0.1
CLEAN RECORD REQUIRED

Black Wyvern
Though this ship was designed special for military use, the blueprints were stolen, and the ship was built without company blessing or supervision in shady rock hermits. Due to this, the Black Wyvern is very hard to come by - the company often intercepts and destroys any models that appear on the market. GalCop also considers these ships to be illegal.

(This model is about 1/3 bigger than the standard models)

Cargo Capacity: 5
Cargo Bay Extension: 170
Maximum Speed: 0.7
Maneuverability:
Roll: 1.0
Pitch: 1.0
Energy Banks: 10
Energy Recharge Rate: 7.5
Gun Mounts: Fore, Aft, Starboard, Port, Plasma Turrets
Missile Slots: 6
Shield Boosters available: Yes
Military Shields available: Yes
Hyperspace capable: Yes
Available to player: Yes
Base Price: 50000000
Chance: 0.0
(Can only be purchased "black market" via mission)

--

Whatddayasay guys?

[Thargoid]

Write the OXP and be damned is what I say (and have done several times myself). If people don't like it, they won't install the thing, and for those who do, they will.

There are times when you want finesse, grace and immersion, and there are times when your colleagues have been annoying the **** out of you and you just want to blow stuff up. These sound perfect for the latter...