Pioneer

[Ganelon]

It doesn't rely on the 3rd party external view. It's one of the options for view is all. Default view is just as "strapped in" as Oolite, though not as much development yet on HUD or cockpits. You can also move the view around when using the external view, which could make for some nice eye candy.

One neat thing is you can sell off the beginner ship and buy a Cobra MK III and deck it out reasonably well with the change. Kind of neat to see a version of the Cobra with retractable landing gear.

"Pioneer Space" seems much more empty than "Oolite Space". I think I maybe saw one other ship once, but I was kinda busy trying to pull off a landing and so I didn't get much of a look at it. At least so far as I've seen, so far it isn't as much of a fast paced action/adventure sort of space sim game as Oolite. Have to remember, though, it's a WIP and a ways behind Oolite in things like missions, back story and so on.

I don't do so well in Pioneer, to be honest. I'm used to joystick control and I haven't figured out how to enable it (if it's even an option at this point in development).

The scenery is pretty neat though, with terrain and atmosphere differences and at least Earth has some cities.

[Killer Wolf]

astonishing though the accomplishment of FFE (and Pioneer) were, in creating hugely massive galaxies w/ the correct orbits etc etc, i found it a little bit pointless due to all that emptiness and not-much-going-onness. my taek would be to scale things back to say Earth's system and populate the crap out of it so that you'd never be far from something interesting. i'd put a lot more huge cities/starports on planets and moons, and have a load more in-space stations of varying sizes etc. i've always found even Oolite's 2500 planets too much - think i visit maybe 10 or so at most, lol - find myself a couple good trade routes between a Tech and an Agro, and go to the odd Anarchy/Feudal if i wanna rack up some kills.

[DaddyHoggy]

astonishing though the accomplishment of FFE (and Pioneer) were, in creating hugely massive galaxies w/ the correct orbits etc etc, i found it a little bit pointless due to all that emptiness and not-much-going-onness. my taek would be to scale things back to say Earth's system and populate the crap out of it so that you'd never be far from something interesting. i'd put a lot more huge cities/starports on planets and moons, and have a load more in-space stations of varying sizes etc. i've always found even Oolite's 2500 planets too much - think i visit maybe 10 or so at most, lol - find myself a couple good trade routes between a Tech and an Agro, and go to the odd Anarchy/Feudal if i wanna rack up some kills.

I always thought the "Firefly" system would be excellent - High Tech and safe near the core worlds - progressively more anarchic on the rim - with the Reavers playing the role of the Thargoids.

[Killer Wolf]

frangible cities would be good too

[ClymAngus]

You can also move the view around when using the external view, which could make for some nice eye candy.

This has been mentioned before. Tricky to implement however. That said as old hardware slowly dies off and systems tend to become more unified (why do everything 3 times for 3 separate operating systems) Then we may see a critical mass of similarities that will allow a relatively quickly programmed hybrid that combines all the best qualitys of both or has a plug in option so you can pick and choose.

I dream of a switch Newtonian flight on/off button. In a game that looks like that, which new parts can be easily added to. Oh and it runs on anything reasonably mid spec regardless of op system.

Pie in the sky?

[Darkbee]

Frontier Elite 2 always amazed me, it seemed like the next logical step up from Elite; a more connected, dynamically changing and interactive universe, rather than solitary systems that seemed completely isolated and distinct. Unfortunately, then I started to play the game and realized that it was about as much fun as a turd throwing contest in Mir space station.

Although the physics were more realistic it didn't really make for a fast-paced game. I think I destroyed another ship maybe 3 times in total, ever. I spent most of my time flying around exploring, which seemed a bit pointless after a while because I was missing half the game. It could have also been largely to do with the fact that I just didn't have a good handle on how to play/control the game, but many other people seem to offer the same feedback.

So, anyway... I concur that from the looks of things a Pioneer/Oolite combined game would be absolutely amazing... All we'd need then was "Second Life: Pioneoolite Edition", and my life as I know it would be over.

In the mean time, I guess I'd better check out Pioneer and see if my skills of overshooting a planet by several days are still in tact.

[Ganelon]

Well, if distances and sizes are "realistic", then most of space is going to be..well.. just open empty space. That doesn't tend to make for fast-paced action type adventure. SecondLife (at least from what I've seen of it) has a similar problem.. Many beautiful areas that are well built, ingenious and creative, but other than a few "hotspots" it's often like wandering in a vast ghost town.

Now, with Pioneer, it could be fixed with addition of some NPCs going on about their biz in at least some logical places. If, like Oolite, it had a fair stock of traders and raiders and cops in the most likely spacelanes, then there'd be at least places where there was higher levels of action. Pioneer is a WIP, though, and I think as missions and NPCs get added in, it'll get more interesting. I don't think the Newtonian physics will make that game many fast friends. It is more realistic, but it doesn't make for easy gameplay for the average new player who is looking to jump right in. The scenery and the smooth transition from planet surface to aerial flight to space flight are great. It's a beautiful stage set, now it needs plot and action.

Oolite, on the other hand, is very "hot" on action and especially with the OXPs, it has tons of missions and plots and subplots. Far more on gameplay than it is on scenery (though the eye candy has gotten pretty darn good too), Oolite is my usual choice when I have an hour and want some spacegame action. On a quiet night I'm more likely to play VegaStrike and explore. Pioneer, I can't really say yet, since I've just gotten to where I can actually land without crashing the ship into bits. Sometimes. LOL I didn't play FFE or FE2, so teaching myself how to actually fly in Pioneer has been a bit of a learning curve.

I did check the "space" sections of SecondLife to see if maybe there was a section that was an Oolite station or bar.. Kind of glad there wasn't, since seeing a bunch of Ooliters standing around in clothes shops trying on new clothes and hair for hours (which seems to be what people in SL spend a lot of time doing, from what I've ever seen) could have shattered all my illusions and left me scarred for life or something. LOL

[Zireael]

So, anyway... I concur that from the looks of things a Pioneer/Oolite combined game would be absolutely amazing... All we'd need then was "Second Life: Pioneoolite Edition", and my life as I know it would be over.

In the mean time, I guess I'd better check out Pioneer and see if my skills of overshooting a planet by several days are still in tact.

Good point.

And a switch for Newtonian physics would be great in Pioneer too.
But I'd prefer Oolite. Not sure if my system would run Pioneer (BTW anyone know its reqs?)

[Rxke]

Pioneer in Alpha 10 state now, Aaaaand a native OS X version...

http://pioneerspacesim.net/download

[Rxke]

To follow up on myself...

Tried it for a spin, and wow, they got something quite playable!

(Never mind I flew actually backwards initially, heehee, I guess it's just like in Oolite, you got to get used to the controls...)

But my laptop got pretty hot, pretty fast


still, quite impressive.

[mcarans]

I saw a video here which looked impressive:
http://www.myvidster.com/video/1589455/ ... e_Frontier

Perhaps it would be good to borrow some of Pioneer's ideas for Oolite 2, particularly being able to fly down onto a planet's surface and see the terrain beautifully rendered.

Similarly if Pioneer were to copy some of Oolite's ideas particularly on the expansions side, it would become a truly excellent game.

[Killer Wolf]

i feel anything involving getting close to planets would be pointless in Oolite, given the scales. i can about ignore the planet size from the stations cos i pretend it's further away than it is, but flying down onto a planet that's only 50km in diameter would ruin the illusion for me.

[Commander McLane]

Pioneer seems to be based on Frontier, Oolite is based on Elite. That's two different approaches which don't really mix well.

The action in Elite/Oolite is clearly taking place in space, not on planetary surfaces. Therefore the greater amount of detail should be given to space, not surfaces. Sure, it would be nice to have some extremely detailed planetary textures or even features on the planets for close fly-bys. But given the number of close fly-bys you usually do, would it really be worth it? I'd say this concentration on detail should rather be given to stations, ships and asteroids.

[Matti]

I have played Frontier and First Encounters and I liked them. What I hate in those games though is hyperspace "exit points" are always in orbital planes. Very annoying with time critical missions when destination target is on wrong side of the star. Simple fix: make hyperspace exit points either above or below of the orbital plane.

[Ganelon]

The 50 km planets look big enough when you're coming in for a landing on them. "Big compared to you" is all that's really needed, and we have that. The Planetfall OXP works well enough in Oolite, at least if you assume that the moment of landing is actually more when you would go atmospheric and it's skipped over, which seems reasonable enough considering when you launch from dirtside it's via a booster, so you only take over the controls again when you're outside the atmosphere. Atmosphereic flight in Oolite would be just too much of a nightmare to implement, I think, and not essential to the game.

Pioneer was neat, but at least when I tried it joystick support was lacking and that's rather a "breaker" for me in any flying game. It was pretty enough that I didn't delete it, but I haven't played it either. That, and when I want something "Newtonian", I can run Orbiter and have more of an actual sim. Oolite is the "action packed fast-paced space adventure game" for me most days.