Oolite for sale on ebay

[Smivs]

I also have misgivings about hard copies, all of which have been expressed elsewhere on this thread by either myself or others. In other ways I do quite like the idea, and there is certainly a case for making it easier to get Oolite, particularly for those with download issues.
I think we are dealing with two issues here.
The first is making a 'hard copy' available which although (presumably) non-profit making, would be 'sold' and therefore advertised.
The 'sold' bit is the problem here....is something that's 'sold' commercial? yes, it probably is even if it doesn't (doesn't want to) make a profit. The obvious issues here are regarding licenses, and what Frontier might think.
The advertising bit ,on the other hand, is good, and I therefore think that exploring promotional avenues is likely to be of greater benefit to us, and is something we should be doing.
As for those with download issues, there might be a solution as well. On the oolite.org website we could include a contact of some sort (phone, email whatever) where people could ask for a free CD to be sent to them. This would incur no cost to the requester, and if the CD contained just the core game, and an intro screen including links to the Wiki and BB, it would be completely non-commercial and there would be no license issues.
The problem is who would do it and who would fund it?
I wouldn't expect a lot of demand to be honest, but could something like this work, and would it be acceptable?

[jonnycuba]

I'd love to buy the package with the little models & galaxy charts etc if it went towards the hosting costs etc...

[Cmdr Radan]

Just my 2 credits...

To sell the 'game' in any form would need a proper buissnes model.
ie. what it cost, what you get, selling chanels, advertising ect,ect.

As it has been already pointed out, there are many parts to Oolite and varing copyright and legal issues.
Also the eternal problem of what 'Frontier' would make of it all.

However - the issue has arrived and there is no ignoring it, it MUST be dealt with.

I think that those who are responsable for content within Oolite and anyone with knowlage of law and buissness should hold a meeting (even a 'vertual' meeting)

Then, set-in-stone the future of this type of thing ie. Commercial/legal standpoint.

I for one whould hate to see this wonderful game and community/venture dissolved by the authorites just because we forgot to "dot the I's and cross the T's"

Discussing what to include/exclude and fancy 'extras' is a mute point untill you can establish the boundries of law and the repercussions of what you are about to do.

Oolite is at a junction, we must all choose the same path leest we fail.

Sorry to seem bullish in all of that, I feel strongly about the survival of this game.

[Cmdr James]

I am a minor contributor, but since everyone else here seems to have given their voice, Ill have a go to.

I dont see why the situation is any different now to the way it has ever been. Wow, one guy has been selling Oolite perfectly legally (I think) and bundling some OXPs (which was not within his rights). We have known about this for a year or so.

Piracy happens. If anything I think the way oolite operates makes "piracy" quite unattractive. Im guessing there were relatively few 1337 H4xx0rs uploading oolite to warez sites on day one of 1.75 release

If we continue to be gpl or similar then all this talk of making decisions if frankly wrong headed. Anyone who wishes to can take it, bang it on a CD and sell it. That is part of the deal.

I dont see that "us" selling boxes will in any way reduce other people doing the same. It is already very easy to find oolite and download for free, maybe we should stick FREE! on the homepage, and maybe on a splash screen? Yeah, I guess we can flood ebay with 1c copies, but really, what is the point? And is this more or less likely to upset frontier et al?

[Disembodied]

I think Cmdr James hits the nail on the head here. Apart from anything else, as soon as anything gets burned to disk it starts becoming obsolete. With the pace of change, and with the sheer number and variety of OXPs, it would be a nightmare trying to keep a disk version up to date.

This doesn't mean we shouldn't produce some box art, though. If people want a box, they should download one and make it themselves. With all the 3D modellers around here I'm betting we could produce a net for a pretty darn fancy one ... how about a cardboard Cobra III, with a disk recess in the cargo bay?

[Commander McLane]

how about a cardboard Cobra III, with a disk recess in the cargo bay?

Cool idea!

I should perhaps point out that—although I have listed a couple of boxable items which practically already exist and would make a quite impressive box—I don't actually believe that this is going anywhere, nor that it should, or would be necessary.

Unless perhaps Giles is announcing that he's going to do it anyway. But I haven't understood his posts to be to this effect yet.

[DaddyHoggy]

I don't know - I leave you guys alone for a week...

When I only had dial up and when I got my first 150Kbit/s "Broadband" I used to buy compilation CDs of stuff I knew to be free - I didn't really understand about licensing then - so I don't know if anything I bought breached those licenses - what is clear is that Oolite can be sold and Aegidian and the rest of the Devs (who have taken up the mantel of making Oolite one of the best games ever) don't have a problem with it. The line was clearly stepped over with the "bundle" - the fan-fic and I guess the OXPs were probably the breaker for this whole thing. Although, to everybody who thought the whole licensing of OXPs a moot point, now you know why Ahruman and Aegidian insisted it wasn't.

The "nobody would buy a nice box" thing is an interesting one - Radiohead made IN_RAINBOWS a free download and then after a bit they took that option away and made it available as a very expensive value-added box set, lots of people bought it, even people who had downloaded the free version (I wasn't one of them - but that doesn't negate my point).

[Cmdr James]

I dont see anyone in this thread saying noone would buy a boxed version of oolite. Quite a few of us would buy an "official" one, if such a thing existed.

I dont think In Rainbows will be much of a surprise for anyone here, nor the similar Nine Inch Nails projects.

You could also have chosen Linux as an example, where many businesses and individuals pay for commercial distributions in favour of free options. Again, this is not likely to be a surprise for many forum readers.

[Ganelon]

Well, as a player, I have to admit that I don't understand all of what the dev team takes into account when making a decision like what licensing the basic game goes out under. So it's just an article of faith for me to assume they always use the best possible, and that assumption would be consistent with the high quality of the game. I'm not dev team, so it's not my place to weigh in on that sort of decision.

OXPs and Oofic and etc are under a different sort of license, and that I understand and feel is very reasonable. If I didn't, I wouldn't put up any fic I've written.

It's good and we can see the system works from the lively community and constant development of the game at many levels. Any player can tell it works well, because the game and all the "extra bits" come together to make some of the most enjoyable space gaming available on this planet at this time.

I do suggest, however, that this discussion has brought to light that some of the community would like some of the sort of things that many fans like. A pretty box (even if they have to print it out and fold and glue it themselves) so that Oolite could have a place on the shelf along with other favourite games, for instance. I'm not big about boxes, myself. I usually throw them away and just keep the manuals and disks when I've bought commercial games. But I can understand the idea, and see where it would be nifty to some folks. I can easily see where it could be great if one was giving a copy of Oolite to a friend or family member as a present.

The little plastic models of ships and Oolite pins/jewelry and etc also at least got a good bit of attention in discussions (I don't know how actual sales are going on those items). Maybe there's enough interest in fan-oriented extras that it's an area we should consider encouraging. I know that when Disembodied mentioned the idea of a box done in the shape of a Cobra III, while I don't have a big interest in software boxes, I was immediately thinking it'd be a neat little model to have on a stand. Other sci-fi fan communities make such things. I've made paper-model items like ships from BSG and the Tardis from Doctor Who, because they're fun projects and I found them as downloads from assorted fan websites around the net.

We don't much have such things yet for Oolite, but I've made some rough models out of card and foamcore of things like the interior of a two-seater type cockpit of a Cobra MKIII and a very crude mock-up for the command deck and cargo hold of a Griff Boa Proto. Just my ideas of where seats and panels and displays are, to have something to work with when visualising them when playing or writing. They aren't of a quality where I'd display them, but it wouldn't be impossible to take them apart again to make cutting templates for the foamcore or cardboard and to tidy up the panels so they could be printed out and glued in if people were really keen on making such a model.

Star Trek fans and etc have done such things for decades now. I remember back in the 70s, there was a photocopied sheet you could get ahold of that had cutting patterns you could trace onto cardboard, cut out the pieces and glue them together, smooth it with a bit of white glue and sanding and paint it up to have a "life size" replica of a Star Trek phaser.

Maybe there's enough interest in something of the sort for Oolite that it might be worth encouraging. Other than being something fun for a player/fan, such items can act as conversation pieces that might interest a new person now and then to try Oolite. There have been some ideas of what would go into the ideal boxed edition of Oolite that would seem to indicate that the interest might be there. Just a thought.

[Selezen]

I remember back in the 70s, there was a photocopied sheet you could get ahold of that had cutting patterns you could trace onto cardboard, cut out the pieces and glue them together, smooth it with a bit of white glue and sanding and paint it up to have a "life size" replica of a Star Trek phaser.

Not only does Oolite bring back the 80s, but now we can bring back the 70s!

Star Trek Paper Modelling

[Micha]

http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/ecp/frontier.htm

[Ganelon]

There's also these:

http://replay.waybackmachine.org/200905 ... ipnet.html

But it'd be a long stretch between these and say a paper model of a lot of the currently popular textured versions of ships. I don't know a lot about graphics software and even less about things like 3d modelling software.

It's maybe a start, though.

[DaddyHoggy]

If EADS can build a bike using nylon granules in a 3D printer I say we encourage them in their research to make 3D printing using composites and alloys and we get them to knock out a full size Cobra MkIII

[CheeseRedux]

full size Cobra MkIII

So, what is the size of the Cobby these days?

[Cody]

Must be about the size of a football pitch, give or take.