Ship Positioning and Population Mechanics

[Darkbee]

I had a question about ships and how they are generated for the duration of a system.

As I understand it, when a player enters a system all ships for that system are then generated and placed pseudo-randomly (in space lanes). This includes; traders, pirates, police and bounty hunters, to varying degrees according to the governmental level of the system.

Are any new ships ever generated? Or is it theoretically the case that you could destroy all ships in a system and then never see another ship ever again if you simply left the game running indefinitely?

I understand the player-centric versus relative positioning notion, and while I think the relative positioning works better for Oolite in general it's not without it's disadvantages. It can be both a blessing and a curse as it means that half the pirates in the system could be destroyed before you even get to see them (annoying if you're a bounty hunter yourself), or conversely the existing pirates could take out many of the trading vessels (annoying if you're a pirate yourself).

I suppose all of this rambling comes out of the fact that my main complaint about Oolite is that often I don't encounter anybody (or at least it is my perception that I don't encounter ships nearly often enough).

I've thought about adding the SunSkimmers OXP and the Deep Space Pirates OXP, but then I have concerns that I'll go the other way and have way more ships than I "expect". In addition, from what I've read the SunSkimmers OXP is not without issues (pirates getting added without bounty? Which may or may not have been fixed), and perhaps somewhat redundant as it seems Oolite does actually add police and other vessels in the planet-sun space lane. With that in mind perhaps just adding Deep Space Pirates OXP would be the best.

I've thought about adding Generation and Dredger OXP's as well but I was put off by the fact that I read somebody found a Dredger right next to a Space Station. Not really what I'd expect as set forth in the imagination of Elite and I don't want to spoil that fantasy. These are mythical beasts that I don't want to see every 5 minutes and I certainly don't want to see one parked next to a Space Station.

Anyway, like I said all of this comes out of my own tortured thoughts of maintaining a balance between upping encounters with other vessels while keeping that feel of Space being a lonely place. I suppose I want my cake and eat it; seeing more action but not too much.

Sorry, long post, all sorts of ideas that have probably been endlessly discussed already.

[Commander McLane]

Are any new ships ever generated? Or is it theoretically the case that you could destroy all ships in a system and then never see another ship ever again if you simply left the game running indefinitely?

The answer is both yes and no.

Yes, you can destroy all ships in the system (I've done that repeatedly), although due to their spreading over the whole triangle between witchpoint, station, and sun it's not trivial to get them all. Destroyed ships are not replaced.

On the other hand, no, because there are some mechanisms which work to (slowly) re-populate a system, albeit with traders only. First, the main station randomly launches a new trader every now and then. It has a pseudo-random number of docked traders. As long as this number is above zero, a trader can be launched. For every docking trader the number is increased again. Traders launched from the main station usually jump out and leave the system. Here the second mechanism steps in: for each trader that leaves the system, another one jumps in at the witchpoint and makes its way to the station (or the sun). So the system does get re-populated over time, but—provided you have killed all roaming traders in the first place—only up to the number of traders which were still docked at the main station.

I've thought about adding Generation and Dredger OXP's as well but I was put off by the fact that I read somebody found a Dredger right next to a Space Station. Not really what I'd expect as set forth in the imagination of Elite and I don't want to spoil that fantasy. These are mythical beasts that I don't want to see every 5 minutes and I certainly don't want to see one parked next to a Space Station.

IIRC that somebody was me, complaining about the original version of the dredger OXP. I think in the current version the dredgers are placed far away from the spacelanes and no longer in the station aegis, so that would be no concern anymore. However, I don't use the OXP, so I can't be sure. The main purpose of the OXP has shifted to salvaging derelict ships and escorting them to a dredger, which I am not interested in, therefore I haven't installed it.

[maik]

I think in the current version the dredgers are placed far away from the spacelanes and no longer in the station aegis, so that would be no concern anymore. However, I don't use the OXP, so I can't be sure. The main purpose of the OXP has shifted to salvaging derelict ships and escorting them to a dredger, which I am not interested in, therefore I haven't installed it.

I'm using the dredgers OXP and in the current version you either have to call them by using a salvage missile on a derelict ship, or you get a message upon entering a system telling you that a massive space battle has taken place and dredgers are on their way to pick up what's left. This is very rare, feels like a 1/100 chance. I haven't seen dredgers idling around the space station.

[Switeck]

I can also attest that Dredger(s) are seldom around unless you're using salvage missiles. And even when using salvage missiles, the randomly added Dredger is often rather far from the space lanes. I have on a very rare occasion seen the added Dredger pass semi-close to the Main Station, but even its Anaconda-like glacial speed soon moves it away again.

You want something to kind-of replenish pirates, get Pirate Cove OXP. It adds pirate-overrun Rock Hermits that have pirates come out and attack if you (or traders/police) get too near. It also turns a small number of regular Rock Hermits into Pirate Coves, thus lowering their appearance about 25%.

This goes hand-in-hand with Deep Space Pirates which also randomly ADDS more Rock Hermits. It almost seems to go nuts sometimes with the additions. You really notice this if you have Rock Hermit Locator OXP installed and equipped on your ship...without both DSP and Pirate Cove OXPs, there is typically no or only 1 Rock Hermit per system. With both, you can see more than 10 on very rare occasion and 2-4 is very common.

[Griff]

From what i remember of C64 Elite, it constantly spawned 1 or 2 pirates in your flightpath no matter what direction you were flying in or how far away you were from the planet/sun. you could only skip along for a few seconds on the J drive before you got attacked, i really kind of miss this in Oolite with it's more sensible pirate placing, anarchies still aren't dangerous enough i reckon, especially once you learn the trick to avoid traffic, deepspacepirates.oxp is great, but it's still too intelligent with it's pirate placing i reckon - make your script more stupid Eric!

[Cody]

anarchies still aren't dangerous enough i reckon,

Anarchy systems seem to vary quite a lot… I got taken-down in one the other night, and I mean taken-down.
Left me gaping at the 'Press Space Commander' screen thinking ‘you can’t do that to me’… but they had.

[Ragged]

I was on a naval reserve sortie last night into an Anarchy system, with a mission to destroy a pirate base.

Usually these are several minutes' flight from the witchpoint.

Anyway, I emerged into realspace from the witchspace tunnel to find

1) Yardies and the Mafia having a huge ding-dong around the witchpoint.
2) The pirate base just within scanner range, and immediately launching a wave of pirates, complete with midrange warship, in my direction
3) 2 other groups of 'random' pirates coming at me.

"Press Space Commander - oh, and change your trousers"

[Darkbee]

1) Yardies and the Mafia having a huge ding-dong around the witchpoint.

Is that the Grand Theft Auto OXP you've got installed?

I sometimes think that Anarchic systems just aren't dangerous enough, but then I get some kind of rude reminder as described by several users above. I suppose really you have to admire the random beauty of Elite/Oolite, and how it can be twisted and cruel much like real life.

Just for kicks I started a new game last night, and I think that's part of my problem. I got so used to kicking @$$ in a tricked out Wolf MkII that I forgot just how hard it is when you don't even have 1 tenth of the equipment. I died and restarted 3 times before I'd even managed to dock once, getting shot up one way or another. My very first jump landed me in Witchspace against a fleet of Thargoids... how unlucky is that? That was definitely a "brown trousers" moment, I'm told a pulse laser tickles when it strikes a Thargoid hull.

[Cody]

It’s one of the game’s strengths… no matter how iron-assed and experienced you are, you’re never invincible.

[UK_Eliter]

You can install the 'Renegades' OXP for extra danger (although I did feel the need to modify it to reduce the chance of renegades appearing). Also, 'renegade sidewinders' and the like - i.e. other low-spec ships massively beefed-up - seems a bit silly!

[Commander McLane]

Also, 'renegade sidewinders' and the like - i.e. other low-spec ships massively beefed-up - seems a bit silly!

... but it's fun!

[UK_Eliter]

Yes!