Antiubericity

[snork]

Hm, no. I am not only without shaders, but also can not have more than about 100 to 110 entities in a system without the framerate dropping below playability.

And I am already pretty tolerant towards low framerate, but below maybe 16 fps it gets like impossible to hit anything with the laser.

On the other hand, at such low framerate witchfuel-speeding right through rock hermits is possible.
(at least was possible in 1.73.4)

[ClymAngus]

one game 1001 ideas anyway the rating system was an idea regarding how in relation any oxp effected game balance based on the original game. That way people could see how oxp's might effect the playability. It was just at the idea stage. Couple of people involved loosely.

We'd be interested in hearing any ideas you had

Well moving away from the limiting ships thing as it is fairly subjective thing. I do like the idea of the lego space ships idea.

Different numbers of hard points per hull different kit to fix on it. Kit can get blown off and has to be purchased again. You can do a lot of equation balancing stuff too more armour means less room for engine parts, cargo weaponry and equipment. Ships become much more personal. If you keep the shapes fairly generic (hull wise) then you could end up with a whole host of nasty looking things.

That said other games have done this sort of thing a lot better. You'd probably be better off designing a game from scratch instead of trying to shoe horn something massive like this into an already cannibalised game.

Just my 10p worth.

You would have to have a diamond hard modular system

[Chrisfs]

What like the monks? I dislike the idea of anything in a game that's so hard core it literally cannot be beaten.

I have to agree that the Black Monks represent that uberness. I was stunned when I looked in their stats and took the OXP out until I had time to tweak them to something tough but not practically unbeatable.

And yet some players have complained that the Black Monk Gunships barely get them warmed up...

I can only suppose that those people must be bored to death by fights with any other type of ship. I would rather fly into an anarchy system full of standard ships than fight one Black Monk.

[Lestradae]

I have to agree that the Black Monks represent that uberness. I was stunned when I looked in their stats and took the OXP out until I had time to tweak them to something tough but not practically unbeatable.

And yet some players have complained that the Black Monk Gunships barely get them warmed up...

I can only suppose that those people must be bored to death by fights with any other type of ship. I would rather fly into an anarchy system full of standard ships than fight one Black Monk.

This might again be an example of different gaming styles - I have no problem with shooting down Black Monk ships, in a Tiger Mk I, mind, with only Mil Lasers and perhaps the odd hardhead.

Stay at considerable distance, empty a Mil Laser charge into one, liberally use injectors to get closer, fire one or two hardheads to keep it occupied a bit, liberally apply injectors to get to 13, 14 km distance, now just rotate through your Mil Lasers until it goes down.

Done. If impatient, careful placement of an energy bomb will wear it down and two rounds Mil Laser should annihilate what's left.

Perhaps it has to do with today's gaming styles versus the games in the 1980s (do I sound old). Today, the learning curve has to be soft and slow methinks, while the C64 learning curves were usually interrupted by regular, sudden death and "running away" was still considered an option in games

Just my 0.2Cr.

[Smivs]

and "running away" was still considered an option in games

I would never consider 'Running Away'...a Strategic Withdrawal would be a much better option

[Kaks]

I personally only do 'better part of valour, better part of valour'!

[ClymAngus]

and "running away" was still considered an option in games

I would never consider 'Running Away'...a Strategic Withdrawal would be a much better option

"Brave Captain Smivs ran away.
Bravely ran away.
When a python reared its ugly head.
He boldly turned his tail and fled."

[DaddyHoggy]

<grabs coconut halves>

<Clip-clop-clip-clop-clip-clop>

[Smivs]

"Brave Captain Smivs ran away.
Bravely ran away.
When a python reared its ugly head.
He boldly turned his tail and fled."

But as soon as the lasers had cooled a mite
and his energy banks were well
he boldly returned right back to the fight
and sent that Python to Hell!

(along with the FerDeLance, two Mambas, a Krait and sundry Cobras).

[Poro]

Yet the legend of Smivs was set in place,
In everyone's eyes he had lost face,
His laser shrivelled very small,
All in the name of "Strategic Withdrawal!"


(Only kidding Smivs, I've had to do that plenty of times myself )

[DaddyHoggy]

Yet the legend of Smivs was set in place,
In everyone's eyes he had lost face,
His laser shrivelled very small,
All in the name of "Strategic Withdrawal!"


(Only kidding Smivs, I've had to do that plenty of times myself )

(with, not at...)

[Smivs]

His laser shrivelled very small,
All in the name of "Strategic Withdrawal!"

Could be worse...at least it was only my Laser

[DaddyHoggy]

His laser shrivelled very small,
All in the name of "Strategic Withdrawal!"

Could be worse...at least it was only my Laser

At least the Pope would approve!

[maik]

Perhaps it has to do with today's gaming styles versus the games in the 1980s (do I sound old). Today, the learning curve has to be soft and slow methinks, while the C64 learning curves were usually interrupted by regular, sudden death and "running away" was still considered an option in games

As they said in the Infocom games of that time: "Save early, save often." Quicksave is your friend

[pagroove]

So what's the solution? Here's one. Size matters.
We perhaps should apportion sizes (physical dimensions) to equipment and cargo. A drive/thruster should be X metres cubed (M3), an energy bank should be Y M3 a laser should be Z M3 etc. For a ship to be 'Valid', the cubic capacity of the ship can be calculated from its dimensions. A sensible amount of this volume (say 5 cubic metres) should be ear-marked for crew space, and then 75% of the rest can be for gear. The left over 25% is for access ways etc, and to recognise that not every cubic centimetre is going to be useable.
The 75% of room can be filled as you see fit...loads of engines if you want speed, loads of cargo space if you want to haul stuff, loads of energy banks if you want durability, with perhaps a nominal volume for a 're-charger' - the higher the recharge rate the more 'rechargers' need to be fitted in.
Deciding on the the actual sizes of equipment could be the subject of a new thread, and one that I hope would include as many people as possible.
As it's not likely any of this will be coded into the game, I suggest a Wiki page in the OXP section could be devoted to listing the equipment and 'official' sizes thereof, and OXP authors should be strongly urged to use this method to calculate what works and what doesn't.
This method could potentially still lead to a few 'silly' ships (eg mega-fast) coming along, but at least they would be 'possible' within the parameters set, and this method would force them to be well balanced.

Sorry for reviving this discussion. But I hope someone is going to do whats suggested here. Of course we then have to make a list ship parts. After this is made we could quickly see which ship are unbalanced.