Something that may be a small bug

[UK_Eliter]

I was in witchspace after a deliberate misjump, dropped a Q-mine and became a 'fugitive', pulled another deliberate misjump and there, amongst the Thargons and the Navy, were bounty hunters! That seems a bit odd.

While I am at it: the misjumps seem *too* easy to pull; the Navy *always* is there with the insects (I think); and why should you always, in fact, encounter the Thargoids after a misjump? (Do they - according to the story line - cause it?) Finally: I think that the generation ships show up a bit too often (though the consequences of attacking them, in the latest version of the OXP, are fun).

[DaddyHoggy]

Erm, the Thargoids were always there, post-misjump (that's kind of the point!) in every version of Elite I've ever played (C64, Amiga, early DOS PC), so Oolite is consistent if nothing else.

I think the background is that the Navy is in a constant, running battle with the Thargoids (with that particular OXP installed), so that's why you keep seeing them too.

[UK_Eliter]

Aha. Well, that makes reasonable sense. Thanks for the clarification. That just leaves the bounty hunters question and the generation ship question. Still, I should not complain. For the game is a great achievement, which I enjoy for free! And there are pleasant people who answer one's queries-cum-gripes!

[Eric Walch]

Aha. Well, that makes reasonable sense. Thanks for the clarification. That just leaves the bounty hunters question and the generation ship question. Still, I should not complain. For the game is a great achievement, which I enjoy for free! And there are pleasant people who answer one's queries-cum-gripes!

The core game only adds thargoids after a misjump. Anything else is added by specific oxps. The bounty hunters could just be an oxp bug of an oxp not checking if it is in interstellar space.
There are many oxps released that just add traders and hunters there.

[Frame]

Aha. Well, that makes reasonable sense. Thanks for the clarification. That just leaves the bounty hunters question and the generation ship question. Still, I should not complain. For the game is a great achievement, which I enjoy for free! And there are pleasant people who answer one's queries-cum-gripes!

The core game only adds thargoids after a misjump. Anything else is added by specific oxps. The bounty hunters could just be an oxp bug of an oxp not checking if it is in interstellar space.
There are many oxps released that just add traders and hunters there.

I'm not sure, since I do have a good memory of Thargoids in normal space, core game with no OXPs about the first time I downloaded Oolite 1.65 i think..

universe.m

Code: Select all

- (void) populateSpaceFromHyperPoint:(Vector) h1_pos toPlanetPosition:(Vector) p1_pos andSunPosition:(Vector) s1_pos

then later in line 1281

Code: Select all

thargoidChance = (system_seed.e < 127) ? 10 : 3; // if Human Colonials live here, there's a greater % chance the Thargoids will attack!

and then in line 1335

Code: Select all

unsigned thargoid_parties = 0;
	while ((Ranrot() % 100) < thargoidChance && thargoid_parties < 16)
		thargoid_parties++;

so in theory you could face as much as 16 thargoid parties in normal space while the chance is extremely slim for that to happen

cheers Frame...

[Cody]

You do get Thargoids in normal space, without OXP's... I ran into a group of them just last night.

[Eric Walch]

The core game only adds thargoids after a misjump. Anything else is added by specific oxps. ...

I'm not sure, since I do have a good memory of Thargoids in normal space, core game with no OXPs about the first time I downloaded Oolite 1.65 i think...

In mend to say that in witchspace there are only thargoids added. All other ships must be generated by opx.
And yes, in normal space there are also thargoids added. But quite rare in my experience.

[Commander McLane]

Finally: I think that the generation ships show up a bit too often (though the consequences of attacking them, in the latest version of the OXP, are fun).

Thanks for the feedback!

It is possible to tune their chance of appearance down. I will do some testing. When I released the latest version, I had a Generation Ship appear about in every third misjump and found that okay. Do you see them more often? Or would you want to see them more rarely than that?

[UK_Eliter]

Dear Commander McLane

I seems to me I see them about half the time I misjump. But perhaps my impression of that is wrong. Still: one third of the time seems too much given that the encounters are meant to be very rare. On the other hand, we do want the players to notice them (and one can, I expect, fail to notice them, given that they are/can be some distance from the thargon action). So: how about a 20% chance?

Also: it seems to me that the thargons do not attack the Generation Ships. Perhaps it would be fun if they did. But if they did, it might make sense to remove the Generation Ships (apparent?) invulnerability. It is a bit strange anyway, perhaps, that they are unarmed. (For they have to travel a long way.) How about giving them - if it is not too much work - some old and rusty fighters they can launch (rusty kraits, sidewinders, mambas, Cobra Mark Is, or perhaps ships from the 'Oldships' oxp)? Or perhaps the Gen. ship could have some a few weak plasma cannons? And we could give it chaff, too. And those beacons that summon the police? But perhaps I am getting over-excited!

Finally: I like the way the Generation Ships look. And it's great to have a rumour from the original Elite as a reality!

[DaddyHoggy]

Dear Commander McLane

I seems to me I see them about half the time I misjump. But perhaps my impression of that is wrong. Still: one third of the time seems too much given that the encounters are meant to be very rare. On the other hand, we do want the players to notice them (and one can, I expect, fail to notice them, given that they are/can be some distance from the thargon action). So: how about a 20% chance?

Also: it seems to me that the thargons do not attack the Generation Ships. Perhaps it would be fun if they did. But if they did, it might make sense to remove the Generation Ships (apparent?) invulnerability. It is a bit strange anyway, perhaps, that they are unarmed. (For they have to travel a long way.) How about giving them - if it is not too much work - some old and rusty fighters they can launch (rusty kraits, sidewinders, mambas, Cobra Mark Is, or perhaps ships from the 'Oldships' oxp)? Or perhaps the Gen. ship could have some a few weak plasma cannons? And we could give it chaff, too. And those beacons that summon the police? But perhaps I am getting over-excited!

Finally: I like the way the Generation Ships look. And it's great to have a rumour from the original Elite as a reality!

Gen ships were launched long before any of the modern era of ships had ever been thought about, before their method of travel (i.e. wormholes) had ever been considered a possibility and therefore, as these ships have had NO other human contact, it's not possible for them to have any of these ships on board.

Built to travel between the stars for potentially 10s of generations it seems reasonable that they were built as robustly and as near indestructible as could be managed at the time, their only defence is (and should be) Galcop's sworn oath to uphold its non-interference (by anybody/thing) regulations to the maximum.

However, I think their encounters should be rare - but as I don't have the OXP installed I don't know how often the current level is.

[Commander McLane]

Thanks again!

Half of the time seems indeed too often. It's difficult to balance, because—as you said—on the other hand we want the player to notice them at all.

As far as their design is concerned, I only can redirect the compliment to Draco_Caeles, who is their creator. I merely tweaked their scripted behaviour.

Overall Generation Ships are ancient. They really are relics from a different time, specifically, a time when quasi-instantaneous witchspace travel (practically) didn't exist. So the only way to reach distant planets was to send huge ships on incredibly long journeys with incredibly slow speeds.

And then cheap witchspace travel evolved and the old giants became obsolete. Only that nobody could tell them during their journeys, which will still take a lot of time until they reach their destinations. On top of that, nobody knows what is actually going on inside the giants. In some of them, the entire population could have fallen victim to a disease, leaving only the Generation Ship itself ploughing its way through interstellar space, with nothing but the autopilot still working. In some, the inhabitants may have completely forgotten the purpose of their journey, even be oblivious to the fact that they are on a journey. In some, the old instructions, left by the first generation, may have turned into a religious cult (see Drew's short story Schism).

So, even if they have carried fighters in the first place, those would probably have been forgotten, or just fallen apart in the centuries. Certainly they wouldn't have any fighters known from Oolite, simply because all ships currently present in Oolite were invented and created literally generations after the Generation Ships launched. Whatever they carried as a defense, would probably be just a joke in the face of an ordinary Cobra III's firepower. However, their actual and best defense is their sheer size. As you noticed, you would be very hard-pressed to even make a dent in their armour. (I guess Generation Ships even predate the invention of shield technology, so they indeed rely on armour only, extremely strong armour, layed out for the purpose of the protection of a complete ecosystem over the course of centuries travelling in the unknown. So only a fool would create anything else than something that is virtually indestructible.)

Theoretically, Thargoids should attack Generation Ships. Maybe they've just given up, after decades of unsuccessfully trying? (From a programming point of view, maybe they fail to target something this big? I don't know.)