Additional galaxies

[another_commander]

Moderator: I broke a split and ended up with Lestradae’s original post in a separate thread. It’s quoted in full here:

I would like to request something probably (according to aegidian) not too complicated:

The option to create scriptable equipment that makes the GH jump into a scripted sector. If you have a certain item of equipment, your next galactic jump will take you to the sector with specified number and seed.

Via oxp that gives the galactic number of the added sector (minus one) such additional sectors could be easily modded.

The whole thing would have to be optional I guess as not everyone will want to have that in their game.

But consider the options what could be done with it: A foray into the usually locked Empire or Federation, a pirate sector, a sector with a largely unknown civilisation, McLane's Cataclysm II could venture into a thargoid sector, sectors to explore or without any civilisation and only mining outposts etc. etc. Possibilities would be limitless.

I'm sure many people would use the option if it was there.

Don't we already have that since 1.72? http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite ... eBehaviour

[Cmdr James]

Not quite, L also (if I understand correctly) wants to have a target chart.

Im pretty sure this has been discussed previously, and it was decided that we dont need it as it can be achieved through clever scripting.

[Commander McLane]

What I understand is that he wants to be able to send the player into galaxies 9, 10, 11, and so on.

I remember that a galaxy 9 was discussed before, but I don't remember with what result.

What you can already do is to create a completely new galaxy by changing the galaxy_seed in your save-file. I don't know off the top of my head, however, if this can be achieved by scripting as well.

What I am more sceptical about is the idea that you could use this method (jumping into Galaxy 9) to create the impression that you left GalCop space and are now in imperial or Thargoid space. The only thing that would change is the names and distribution of the systems on the chart. You would have to override the system populator completely in order to have only imperial (or Thargoid) ships spawned, and have all stations replaced with imperial (or Thargoid) variants. And do Thargoids have stations in the first place?

So, even if creating galaxies 58-63 with new galaxy_seeds is feasible, modelling them into something clearly and visibly non-GalCop may be not.

[Lestradae]

What I understand is that he wants to be able to send the player into galaxies 9, 10, 11, and so on.

Exactly, that is the idea.

What you can already do is to create a completely new galaxy by changing the galaxy_seed in your save-file. I don't know off the top of my head, however, if this can be achieved by scripting as well.

As far as I am aware of the possibilities, it can't be done by scripting atm. It can easily be done by editing a savegame and simply entering a galaxy number and a seed (the seed I think needs to be six numbers between 1 and 256). Then you find, when loading that savegame, yourself in a sector with new system names, the given sector number and new system distributions.

If you do an oxp-system then that has the galaxy number of that hacked galaxy as reference, that hacked system will indeed appear in this game.

But, and that's why I request this, sending someone into galaxy 53 could currently only be done by telling the player to manually hack their savegame and enter numbers. Not entirely elegant imo.

What I am more sceptical about is the idea that you could use this method (jumping into Galaxy 9) to create the impression that you left GalCop space and are now in imperial or Thargoid space. The only thing that would change is the names and distribution of the systems on the chart. You would have to override the system populator completely in order to have only imperial (or Thargoid) ships spawned, and have all stations replaced with imperial (or Thargoid) variants. And do Thargoids have stations in the first place?

I think scripting methods to do of this already exist, a script must say that if i.e. in galaxy 53, "send all ships away" and "remove main station", then populate the system with ships and stations which have as a condition in their shipdata entries that they only appear in sector 53.

That can be done already. And if the main station is removed, it says on the wiki, the next best station is treated as main station by the game. So you could also save game in such an alternate galaxy/sector.

So, even if creating galaxies 58-63 with new galaxy_seeds is feasible, modelling them into something clearly and visibly non-GalCop may be not.

It would be easy to create a template oxp for modelling a whole galactic sector. Have a planetinfo.plist that renames all systems to 0 to 255 for easier recognition, for the galaxy number X (for specific use, replace X with whatever number your new sector should have).

You also need the abovementioned "send away all normal populator ships" and "remove main station" script and ships and stations for that sector in shipdata. Then rename the 255 systems, and perhaps give them unique contents. Voila. Done.

If thargoids have stations and what they do with them could then be found out in Cataclysm II, Revenge of the Thargoids. I.e.

[another_commander]

To be honest, I don't think this has any chance of happening before next stable release. Even after next stable, its chances would be pretty slim, the way I see it from here.

[Lestradae]

To be honest, I don't think this has any chance of happening before next stable release. Even after next stable, its chances would be pretty slim, the way I see it from here.

Is it really that complicated? I fear I already know the answer to this. Though aegidian claimed otherwise somewhere in an older debate about a similar topic with additional sectors - I believe to remember that, at least.

[Frame]

Its pretty easy from what I understand..

its all the what follows..

Isolated constellations..

profane planet names..

for example, according to wikipedia, an entire galaxy was removed from Classical Elite after finding a planet named arse

allthough i'm tempted to go have a look and see what happens ...


Edit.. however: not quite so easy it seems

I would love for someone to point me in the right direction as a change of the rotate left inline function seem to have backward compatibility issues..

[Kaks]

The simplest way of doing it is to write down the seeds for the first 8 galaxies, and save those in an array. Once you've changed the 'rotate' function to just look up the values from that array ( as opposed to doing bitwise operations ), and tested you do get the original seeds & galaxies as per the normal Oolite, you can start adding more galaxy seeds (any random numbers would do) to the array... Easy peasy, lemon squeezy! At least in theory!

PS: to the best of my understanding, altering the galaxy generator might well be a step too far to be considered for inclusion in future Oolite releases...

[another_commander]

You would also need to decide what to do when the player galactics-out of, say, chart 10. Where does he end up? Chart 11, back to original chart1-chart8 where he departed from, other? Under what circumstances would it be possible to return to G1, when any galaxy number can be reachable?

Definitely more complicated than what it looks like. This is why this change is too much for the next stable release. I recommend we revisit the subject after 1.75.

[Lestradae]

I was imagining to leave the eight galaxies rotation as is. Other galaxies could be reachable only via scripted equipment. And, where do you get when GH'ing out of 9+? My suggestion, make that scriptable too. You could actually have a mace of sectors that way. And if you return to 1-8, you are simply in the old wheel again as before.

So not so complicated after all, and anyone who doesn't want it in their game can just leave well alone and never get in contact with these pesky "beyond 8" sectors.

[another_commander]

So not so complicated after all, ...

Oh OK, all we need then is someone to implement it.

[Lestradae]

So not so complicated after all, ...

Oh OK, all we need then is someone to implement it.

Didn't you already show us pictures of galaxy 9 once? Or was that done the same way I could do it - by manipulating a savegame?

Wouldn't it be possible to make this here:

Code: Select all

    <key>galaxy_number</key>
    <integer>7</integer>
    <key>galaxy_seed</key>
    <string>37 45 36 1 169 219</string>

... read/writeable?

[another_commander]

Didn't you already show us pictures of galaxy 9 once? Or was that done the same way I could do it - by manipulating a savegame?

That was made in code all right, but what those pictures of G9 did not show was that the entire game was probably severely broken, as I did it just as an experiment, without caring what would happen to anything outside the galactic chart screen and without testing anything whatsoever. Now, if this were to go in as a feature, then what I did there is definitely not the right way to go about it.

[Killer Wolf]

i kinda think i see what's getting at here, but...more galaxies? this is entirely against canon of the game. if there's a flat out "no" to something like laser coolers, i can't imagine why this idea is even being discussed? as for Thargoids, getting caught in WS is about as far as we need to go w/ them, IMHO. what would be different about their "sector"? you wouldn't last long enough to know anything because presumably every ship you encountered there would be theirs, and they'd have you dead in moments. doubt you could trade w/ them, so unless there was a "jump in w/ the Navy and tw@ everything in sight" mission, i'm not seeing the point of that. as for other human sectors....isn't 8x256 planets enough?

[dalek501]

I can understand that point of view, but surely there are already OXPs that change elements of the canon already? Thargoids wonderul 'Aquatics' that changes a planet name? Being a Doctor Who fan I'm well aware of the complexities of canon, and it could be argued that adding anything to the game, even new ships alters the original concept.

Canon is very much down to each individuals opinion, and as long as the core game remains intact I would welcome a change like this in an OXP.

Maybe new entire galaxies is taking things too far? Would it be possible to create new planets (maybe in Thargoid space? Maybe in other alien space?) which are outside our own galaxy, and the missions involve raids on these planets?

IE. Maybe Galcop manage to manufacture a wormhole into "an unknown planet" that can only last 5 minutes, say? And you have to perform a raid into that system to retrieve/steal some unamed object and get out in time?

The possibilities are great, and I would welcome them in an OXP.