more competition in the banking sector

Discussion and information relevant to creating special missions, new ships, skins etc.

Moderators: another_commander, winston

User avatar
Commander McLane
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 9520
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:08 am
Location: a Hacker Outpost in a moderately remote area
Contact:

more competition in the banking sector

Post by Commander McLane »

LittleBear's (thanks to Hesperus for the fix, and apologies to LB :oops: ) Bank of the Black Monks certainly has helped many a commander to acquire some capital during the crucial phase of beginning a career. And the monks' distaste for not honouring one's debt has equally certainly helped some of them to a very early retirement, if you know what I mean. :twisted:

However, there are other aspects of banking which haven't yet been explored in Oolite. What about saving money, for instance? Or investing it? Or, indeed, an alternative to the monks' questionable loan conditions?

In short: I think the Ooniverse has room enough for more than one big bank. I would like to add another one (or even a whole bunch).

I am thinking of an OXP that adds banking stations in corporate systems. The station itself should be fortified, well armed and protected, basically a flying vault. Any volunteers for designing it? The supply of money and valuables can get dealt with through A_H's armoured transports, I think.

They would offer a bigger variety of services:
  • Loans like the Black Monks, but with a little choice on how much money you want to borrow. And with a little randomized conditions, as far as interest rates are concerned. There could also be some security mechanism, although I don't know yet in which way (have some sketchy ideas).
  • Savings. You leave as much money as you can spare with the bank. Next time you check in, you can get it back with interest.
  • Fixed deposits. Same as loans, but the deposit has to stay in the bank for a fixed time. The interest rate is higher. But if you need your money back before the time has expired, you will have to either accept a penalty on your returning, or take out a loan instead, with your deposit as a security.
  • Investment/shares. You may buy bank shares. If business is good, you will get a dividend once in a while. If business isn't quite as good, you won't. In a Ooniversal financial crash you may lose it all...
More ideas can be added.

This is partly meant as an alternative path to wealth, but it will stay in perspective with the usual trading - contract shipping - scavenging alternatives, so don't expect a get-rich-quick scheme (and—as far as savings/fixed deposits/shares are concerned—of course you will first need some money in order to make more money).

The scripting part of it shouldn't be too complicated, so I think I can come up with a basic OXP in a reasonable amount of time.

Please feel free to add your suggestions/thoughts/ideas/criticisms here.
Last edited by Commander McLane on Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Thargoid
Thargoid
Thargoid
Posts: 5525
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:55 pm

Post by Thargoid »

Planet-side branches are also perfectly do-able, via a PlanetFall add-on OXP...
User avatar
Captain Hesperus
Grand High Clock-Tower Poobah
Grand High Clock-Tower Poobah
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:10 pm
Location: Anywhere I can sell Trumbles.....

Re: more competition in the banking sector

Post by Captain Hesperus »

Commander McLane wrote:
LittleBear's Bank of the Black Monks certainly has helped many a commander to acquire some capital during the crucial phase of beginning a career.
Fixed that for ya....

Captain Hesperus
The truth, revealed!!
Image
User avatar
DaddyHoggy
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Intergalactic Spam Assassin
Posts: 8501
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:43 pm
Location: Newbury, UK
Contact:

Post by DaddyHoggy »

I've already set up one other bank as seen in YAH. :wink: (or is that what got you thinking about this?)
Selezen wrote:
Apparently I was having a DaddyHoggy moment.
Oolite Life is now revealed here
User avatar
Commander McLane
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 9520
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:08 am
Location: a Hacker Outpost in a moderately remote area
Contact:

Post by Commander McLane »

DaddyHoggy wrote:
I've already set up one other bank as seen in YAH. :wink: (or is that what got you thinking about this?)
No, but I may of course use it if you have no objections. And I forgot to mention above that there will be more opportunities for ads if there are more banks.

But have to find it first, where is the ad?

EDIT: Found it here, and honestly, re-reading the post I have to admit that, yes, it may have triggered the idea. Rather subliminal, because I wouldn't have recalled it without your reminder. Thinking more I am actually quite sure that the ad started the process that lead to this thread.

Bottom line: Congrats, DH, another good suggestion of yours that will bear fruits! :D
User avatar
JohnnyBoy
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 490
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 9:41 pm
Location: West Sussex, UK (rich agricultural)

Re: more competition in the banking sector

Post by JohnnyBoy »

Commander McLane wrote:
In a Ooniversal financial crash you may lose it all...
I wonder where you got that idea from.... ;)
"That's no vicious Treeoid. That's my wife."
User avatar
Commander McLane
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 9520
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:08 am
Location: a Hacker Outpost in a moderately remote area
Contact:

Re: more competition in the banking sector

Post by Commander McLane »

JohnnyBoy wrote:
Commander McLane wrote:
In a Ooniversal financial crash you may lose it all...
I wonder where you got that idea from.... ;)
What? Why? :shock:

It goes without saying that any resemblance with living persons or actual events is purely coincidental. :wink:

And of course, in the real world a financial crash could never cause a global crisis and ruin millions of lives. Never! Capitalism is good, after all! And the republicans would never allow it to hurt anyone. I mean, think of all the wonderful tax cuts. :wink:
User avatar
Cmdr James
Commodore
Commodore
Posts: 1357
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:43 pm
Location: Berlin

Post by Cmdr James »

To be fair, even the way things are at the moment (in real life) many people have lost jobs, and the net value of investments has fallen, and people with all their eggs in Lehmans or similar may have managed to lose it all, but the vast majority of investors will still have a good lot of value in equities, and very few people with money in straight savings accounts have lost much.

And crashes are relatively infrequent. I think Banks in oolite should be mostly stable (with modest interest -- and we need to be careful as there is no inflation, so lets not try to be too clever), and any crashes being extremely infrequent. Otherwise its not so much a bank as a casino.

Full disclosure: I do work in the financial sector, and am therefore quite possibly biased.
User avatar
Commander McLane
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 9520
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:08 am
Location: a Hacker Outpost in a moderately remote area
Contact:

Post by Commander McLane »

Agreed on all points.

Unlike LittleBear I want to make use of the in-game time for interest calculations. Probably with semi-annually, quarterly, or even monthly rates, because a game-year is really long for a player. The Black Monks are basically loan sharks, with a ridiculously high interest for a ridiculously short-term loan. A loan from a 'real' bank will have to be cheaper.

Same goes for savings. Even if the annual interest would be absurdly high (compared to real-world conditions), there is no way it could beat what the player would earn by trading over the course of a year. (Well, probably if he flies an Adder with 2t cargo capacity. :wink: )

The major challenge in scripting this OXP will be to come up with a reasonable timescale.

As for crashes: Yes, they should be extremely rare events, especially ooniversal crashes. But this is why I want to set up different competing banks: It can more easily happen that one of them gets into trouble. And then it depends whether it is the one where the player has his account, or not.

First I even was ventilating wild-west like ideas: If the bank where you have deposited your money gets robbed by pirates, your money is gone. But I think this is unrealistic for two reasons: (1) Credits in Oolite are not actually coins or notes, but rather some electronic payment system. (All over the game and the fiction there are two concepts of money transfers: either it's only numbers typed into a datapad, so no physical representation at all; or it's credsticks, which are a physical representation, although I imagine a credstick rather to be an equivalent to a cheque than to cash. So at the end of the day the player's money is in an account anyway; he doesn't carry it physically on his ship.) (2) From a game-play perspective it would be awkward if the player would meet his bank only in one single system. So it has to be big banks with branches all over the place. Therefore it doesn't matter where his money is actually stored. However, if some armoured transports get hijacked by pirates, it is to be expected that the shares of the bank involved would be affected, and thus the player, if he happens to be a shareholder.
User avatar
Gimi
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 2073
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 5:02 pm
Location: Norway

Post by Gimi »

Same goes for savings. Even if the annual interest would be absurdly high (compared to real-world conditions), there is no way it could beat what the player would earn by trading over the course of a year. (Well, probably if he flies an Adder with 2t cargo capacity. :wink: )
Well, if somebody decides to embark upon a bounty hunting trip in a ship with no or little cargo space, or goes off to do lots of missions, putting your money in the bank makes sense.

Done right, it will balance the game in favour of small fast and powerful combat ships which are more of a novelty currently. It might make alternative careers more favourable. Next step would of course be an OXP or extension that introduces bonds and stocks. :P
"A brilliant game of blasting and trading... Truly a mega-game... The game of a lifetime."
(Gold Medal Award, Zzap!64 May 1985).
User avatar
LittleBear
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 2862
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:02 pm
Location: On a survey mission for GalCop. Ship: Cobra Corvette: Hidden Dragon Rated: Deadly.

Post by LittleBear »

Re-doing Black Monks is on my to-do list, once Random Hits 1.4 is finished (but no time yet due to RL). Its a very primative script and could be done a million times better in JS. I'd probabley re-do it using current ship's mass, reputation score and current balance plus a bit of randomness for the maxium they'll lend you and JS would make it easy just to switch monks stations and ships AIs on mission variables tripping. But they would stay loan sharks, but might well be worth it to take a big loan for a frieghter even with the big Vig.
OXPS : The Assassins Guild, Asteroid Storm, The Bank of the Black Monks, Random Hits, The Galactic Almanac, Renegade Pirates can be downloaded from the Elite Wiki here.
User avatar
Cmd. Cheyd
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:52 pm
Location: Deep Horizon Industries Manufacturing & Research Site somewhere in G8...

Post by Cmd. Cheyd »

What about making the "Standard Banks" require a clean legal status, but the Black Monks being willing to allow more "colorful" histories...

Also, the standard banks could put a lein on your cargo, forcing you to repay them first upon selling? Default on the loan too long, and it forces sale of your ship and replaces it with an adder, or some other major downgrade... So the player isn't stuck in a "Game Over" situation, but it has become considerably harder?

Just some random ideas, whilst sitting in my cubicle...
User avatar
Cmdr James
Commodore
Commodore
Posts: 1357
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:43 pm
Location: Berlin

Post by Cmdr James »

Why not just make the banks backed by law. Failure to repay adds 2% of the outstanding balance to your legal status on each jump -- something like that?
MKG
Dangerous
Dangerous
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:45 pm
Location: Edge of Lake Humber

Post by MKG »

My two penn'orth. The Knights Templar were Europe's bankers in their time, and the image seems to me to fit in closely with the tone of several OXPs. Just food for thought for you inventive people.

Mike
User avatar
Lestradae
---- E L I T E ----
---- E L I T E ----
Posts: 3095
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:30 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria

..

Post by Lestradae »

I have been throwing an idea around that the player could buy stations for a lot of credits - stations like solar power plants, asteroid mines, SIRF shipyards, etc. etc.

The bought station(s) would then be spawned in the system where they were bought and they would give a dividend that was paid every week to the player. Perhaps 0.2% of its own cost per week?

Would also not be a get rich fast scheme, but a get even more rich if you're rich scheme :wink:

Why not let banks sell stations?

Feel free to use if you like the idea.
Post Reply