Do any of you play by an "honor code"?

[szaumix]

Salutations commanders.

Just wondering how many of you play by an "honor code" that is not covered by game mechanics, OXPs, tweaking etc? (Maybe you do and you don't realize it!). I ask because of how many I have. And because every so often I ask myself, "couldn't/shouldn't this be covered by the game?" and suddenly I am learning, pulling apart and tweaking game code for yet another game. Inspired to ask because I'm playing a lot more Oolite than usual lately, and generally speaking I solve the most obvious immersion-breakers with honor codes, not handwaivium. I've been consciously and subconsciously inventing honor codes for games for as long as I can remember.

For examples of what I mean, here are my personal Oolite honor codes off the top of my head:

- whatever I consider "cheap," (too player centric, immersion breaking, etc) I generally don't do.
- This mostly involves a fair bit of voluntary Torus abstinence because, lore aside, I can't justify it in a lot of cases. (The actual sentence I utter aloud is, "lose the quirium or the time." I privately consider Torus use to be a form of time speedup, so trips to the sun and back, very long (550+) trips without NPCs etc. Anything shorter than that will be extremely sporadic use.
- I simply can not bear lazy milk runs and easy milk run jackpots. Very rarely will I do a lucrative one jump trade, I am always dreaming up reasons and contracts for dangerous or extended 2-3(+) jump minimum milk run and I often switch up commodities for smaller profits voluntarily. This is despite the various economics mods I've tried, and currently have.
- I take capsuling very seriously, because I consider loading when I don't like a foreseeable result to be cheating. More than once I've started a new game because I was so disgusted at myself for making the stupid decision which led to my ship explosion (taking a ridiculous risk, going unprepared or without pirate kibble, etc) when I knew I shouldn't.
- I honor the spirit of OXPs, and immersion, as much as possible. I'm almost embarrassed to say what I do with Docking Fees, whenever the fee is waived because I retardedly launched without checking that I had enough to dock again.

Besides not using torus as an evasive maneuver, I can't think of any combat based honor off the top of my head. Maybe I do and it will come to me later.

I can't tell you how many new games I've gone through, but I figure my personal rules will make any given save last me a long time and keep it interesting. I'm in yet another Start_Choices game and with my rules I obviously don't expect to ever again get ranked Deadly, nor a lot of other 3rd party accolades/missions either. That's OK, I'm here for the ride, not to "win".

But surely I'm not the only one that plays by dreamed-up limitations? I know you're out there, Commanders.

[Cholmondely]

But surely I'm not the only one that plays by dreamed-up limitations?

Welcome to the dreaded BB!

I go for ethical limitations. I don't do the illegal commodities. With Illegal Goods Tweak I can buy up slaves from Rock Hermits and then free them. I will dump my cargo to do this, and then return later and pick it up again. I don't attack the innocent, nor those who are just offenders - maybe they just have parking tickets...). I never attack illegals in Commie states unless they attack me (possible freedom fighters?). But my combat skills are rather feeble anyway - I need bionic help (SniperLock) to have any sort of chance.

But I also go for the Stranger's World suite which introduces sensible physical limitations, and for Weapons Laws, Diplomancy & Smugglers which introduce sensible legal limitations (and help give life to the geography). I find that SW Economy smoothes out the bizarre distortions of the Deep Space Dredgers' markets.

PS: When did you first discover Oolite?

[Disembodied]

Just wondering how many of you play by an "honor code" that is not covered by game mechanics, OXPs, tweaking etc?

I always scoop escape pods, even if I have to dump valuable cargo to make room. And if I scoop a container of slaves, I feel duty-bound to take them in, even though there's undoubtedly better loot out there (it's the one place where the lousy prices for slaves gives the player an ethical conundrum: it's easy not to be a slave-trader, because the profits are miserable; if it was a lucrative trade it would be more of a moral challenge not to do it). But once they're on board, can't bring myself to dump them.

[Cody]

I always scoop escape pods, even if I have to dump valuable cargo to make room.

Yep! I usually run with space for at least two. That's part of my in-game "code of honour".

[szaumix]

I go for ethical limitations.

I feel a sting of guilt when I collect a smallish bounty on some harmless Offender hysterically begging me not to "kill him for a few credits" -- probably some minor infraction or collection of minor stuff. The sting is also the guilt of hypocrisy since I will occasionally willfully traffick whatever suits me in large amounts under Bounty System. My Jameson can be a cynical jerk ala Han Solo sometimes, but at least I'm self-aware

PS: When did you first discover Oolite?

I played old Elite on DOS as a kid, but out of all the 3D flyers it was my least favorite. Found Oolite in... 2014(?). Without BGS and a handful of other OXPs I have now that I consider more or less standard for a meaningful Oolite experience (for me), well, I was never going to love it back then as I do now. When i first found it I was knee deep in an 12-month project autistically tweaking/coding another game for its die-hards, and I can only have one main game at a time so Oolite was background noise to me then: no honor so no real care. So the real answer is I've been playing in earnest less than a year, and with my last few new Jameson starts and a recently standardised honor/immersion code, I suddenly realise I love this game and am in serious danger of doing little else unless someone breaks my laptop.

I always scoop escape pods, even if I have to dump valuable cargo to make room.

Yep! I usually run with space for at least two. That's part of my in-game "code of honour".

Exactly the kind of answers I was hoping for! *taking notes*

[Cody]

Exactly the kind of answers I was hoping for! *taking notes*

A few more: my Commander has been running since 2009, and I've never committed an act of piracy, nor have I been a bounty hunter.
I'll happily trade in narcotics, but never in slaves or firearms, and often run in iron-man mode.

[szaumix]

By "never "been a bounty hunter," do you mean that you've never exploded anyone that didn't shoot at you first? In 13 years?
Actually I just realized that my current character/save hasn't either yet, this time around, and I not for lack of opportunity but not really an overt decision either. Lingering guilt maybe, given my wilful smuggling and opportunistic Offender cynicism.

Incredible the little rules we get ourselves into, and how deeply we commit into immersion. Consciously and subconsciously.

[Cody]

Incredible the little rules we get ourselves into, and how deeply we commit into immersion.

Immersion is key, and it's the "game in the head" which makes it possible!


And welcome aboard, Commander!

[Cmdr Wyvern]

Well yes.

My first character, Derik Roh'i, first driven by grief, then vengeance, then by an instinct to simply do the right thing, was a willful lone-wolf bounty hunter and a sort-of galactic paladin. Only ever engaged pirates and 'Goids, often firing the first shots. If the scum was harassing traders when found, then Derik took exceptional notice.

2nd character, Thi'ena Roh'i. Mostly trader, but wouldn't back down if shot at; instead standing her ground and turning the tables.

3rd character, Ath'aenah Roh'i. 130-odd year old (thanks to rejuv treatments) hardassed hunter. Former trader, got stinking rich trading, then decided to join the Guild, and pay the pirates back for shooting at her all those years - and get paid for doing it!

Basically for the Roh'i clan, evil needs it's ass kicked, and the Roh'is are wearing the boots.

[Switeck]

I seldom ever play "seriously" at Oolite anymore, but when I do...I'm more likely to be mining asteroids than shooting at other ships, and I even find it to be slightly imbalanced/unfair due to the OXP/OXZ to refine/extract goodies from the minerals without processing that at a big refinery in a Rock Hermit or main station.

I started modding the Cargo Contracts that comes in the core game because I see the original profit multipliers as a free money cheat.

I'm looking to change the number of add-on stations in systems, because too many in any 1 system makes the game a lot easier profit-wise.

I came up with Auto-ECM (which fires the ECM only once on detection of an incoming missile) because I felt other anti-missile OXPs/OXZs were too powerful or even silly.

Some of the other equipment OXPs I've released have even elicited a response that they don't really do much...so probably not many game balance breaking issues there either.

I've got a lot of game-balance-breaking OXPs that I never plan to release as OXZs and only hand out on a limited basis to other OXP/OXZ makers for testing their stuff. I know these are cheats, but they're fun to plink around with even when not testing anything.

I've come up with an improved replacement for Misjump Analyser OXP/OXZ that I have yet to release because it really deserves a fun little "product recall" mission or 2 to go with it and the original version.

I am however looking for ridiculous holes in Oolite's hyperspace methods...
People posting how to cross the Great Rift in Galaxy Chart 7 in this forum is what got me started on that kick.
I've found misjump combos to shorten jump routes time-wise and sometimes needing fewer jumps as well.
This has allowed me to find misjump routes to reach Oresrati in Galaxy Chart 8, which might be theoretically possible to do without OXPs/OXZs with extreme difficulty.
I've also reached the "unreachable" systems in Galaxy Chart 3 using misjumps...but those require extremely complex code that I've not officially released. Maybe if "in universe" the Galactic Navy had a lot of special misjump equipment and a large fleet of ships to piggy-back on each others' wormholes...it might be possible for them to send an expedition to those systems -- but even that would seem unjustified cost-wise and difficulty-wise.

[szaumix]

I'm looking to change the number of add-on stations in systems, because too many in any 1 system makes the game a lot easier profit-wise.

I came up with Auto-ECM (which fires the ECM only once on detection of an incoming missile) because I felt other anti-missile OXPs/OXZs were too powerful or even silly.

I am very interested in both of these if you're willing to give them up. I have got your latest Cargo Contracts too, thanks.

(Just a side note, you're not by any chance the same Switeck that did the TABF_1.7 are you?)

[Switeck]

Well... Station Exclusions may seem a great idea as a mod OXP/OXZ for all the installed stations many people have in Oolite...but the hardest part I've found in creating it is licensing. I'm in effect modifying every station that Station Exclusions either spawns somewhere else or blocks from spawning in its "expected" locations. So the legalities may stand in the way. The nuts-and-bolts behind programming it is I have to remove or modify every station's spawn script file/s...and I'd like to consolidate them into 1 master spawning script file to make things a little faster as well. So...nothing to release without contacting a lot of station makers and asking permission. Even my local attempt to do this still needs work, as I may need to modify it after each station update.

Auto-ECM OXZ is already in Oolite add-on list.

Yes, Total Annihilation Bug Fix v1.7 is one of those never-ending projects that I've half given up on. Unit scripts that don't quite work correctly...and may even crash the game. I last fired up Total Annihilation for fun against the AI back around January this year. Ai profiles are a headache too.

[szaumix]

The nuts-and-bolts behind programming it is I have to remove or modify every station's spawn script file/s...and I'd like to consolidate them into 1 master spawning script file to make things a little faster as well. So...nothing to release without contacting a lot of station makers and asking permission. Even my local attempt to do this still needs work, as I may need to modify it after each station update.

Damn. Since what you're describing was a major set of tweaks on my Oolite wishlist, this is disappointing. I'm new to Oolite tweaking but not to programming or modding generally, so this means I just have to figure everything out and do it myself slowly and probably ask a slew of questions on these boards. Oh well.

Auto-ECM OXZ is already in Oolite add-on list.

Oh wait, that one. Nah I don't want it LOL, I thought you meant an ECM that still manually fires but only once and only after you've actually targetted the incoming missile. I generally like my gaming harder, and I like feeling like I'm in a dogfight with my pilot's life on the line.

Yes, Total Annihilation Bug Fix v1.7 is one of those never-ending projects that I've half given up on. Unit scripts that don't quite work correctly...and may even crash the game. I last fired up Total Annihilation for fun against the AI back around January this year.

No, I am extremely familiar with TABF: I spent nearly two years completing your work! Just for love of TA, and because I'm an autist. I do data analysis and stratification for a living, so my nearly finished project of bug fixing and balancing original TA once and for all (lol) happened naturally and obsessively, and used TABF_1.7 as a basis. "No changes additions or removals that aren't absolutely logical, absolutely consistent, absolutely necessary for balance, and in the spirit of the original". Do not insert yourself into a "bugfix" or it risks becoming a mod, which by the end it almost was. It was pretty ambitious, but TA:ESC which did not use TABF and kept superfluity, and all the other crappy mods and buggy extra units which were objectively worse got all the limelight. I was under 3 months away from completion and public release but life happened and now I don't have the computer, the project or the wife. Back then noone was using TABF, i felt it was shockingly underrated, this is like 10 years ago. I think it's kind of standard now. I wouldn't know, haven't touched TA since.

Ai profiles are a headache too.

Ai profiles are a product of actuarial logic, right up my alley. I modified the Queller AI so that it used more than missiles (more interesting), ended up blowing original Queller out of the water. Average 14x14* map game with that AI was 10-14 hours.
[*EDIT: I might be thinking 18x18. It's a long time ago]

TL;DR -- small world, your project turned into a major dedicated project for me which would have been published and either changed TA or more likely, been seen as another neglected "mod". I respected TABF _1.7 enormously, so nice to meet you.

And now back to Oolite!

[szaumix]

and often run in iron-man mode.

I keep seeing references to Iron man mode. Whatever it is it sounds like it's probably my kind of thing. What is it?

[Switeck]

I can post how station replacement logic works -- that's almost the easiest part:
viewtopic.php?p=123265#p123265

It's the chasing down every OXP and OXZ station's script to spawn them that can be a pain. Many, such as Superhub, use a generic script.js tossed into its Config folder (good luck making a script to delete that on demand). Some are spawned via populator calls inserted into their "other activities" scripts. Some replace the normal stations via matching roles with a high (9999) weighting value (this is how Commies! Astrogulag replaces pretty much every rock hermit)...that is in their shipdata.plist file. Some even use planetinfo.plist for where they spawn. Many have their own 'name' script .js file...which controls their other activities and doesn't contain their spawning conditions (Sothis for instance).

Why I consider lots of extra stations a big deal fairness-wise:
viewtopic.php?p=169494#p169494

Or even just lots of a particular new(-ish at the time) OXP station:
viewtopic.php?p=161160#p161160

Auto-ECM OXZ is already in Oolite add-on list.

Oh wait, that one. Nah I don't want it LOL, I thought you meant an ECM that still manually fires but only once and only after you've actually targetted the incoming missile. I generally like my gaming harder, and I like feeling like I'm in a dogfight with my pilot's life on the line.

I got sick of being punked by point-blank missiles fired by NPCs just before they almost collided with my ship. That problem used to be so bad in Oolite that one of the more recent releases greatly reduced the chances of NPCs firing missiles point-blank at the player or presumably at other ships as well. Incidentally, I killed the Constrictor with a point-blank missile shot in both original Elite on Commodore 64 (was using a C-128 tho) and Oolite. Even the NPC ships often can't ECM instantaneously...and they're even poorer at it now than they used to be, with a reaction time coupled with how "skilled" they are.

I hope you don't mind me PMing you concerning Total Annihilation stuff.

Figuring out how a game does something is what I do, even if I never change a line of code in it.
"Oh, this sell amount allows any value as a manual input? I'll try minus 1 billion!"
(...sanity-checking input and output is done too little in this world.)