Oolite Bulletins

Would it be possible, as an OXP, to have shield strength displayed either as units (say, 200/256) or as a percentage (say, 70%) in addition to the display bar we all know and love.

In addition, could we have a Shield Strength Scanner as an add-on to McLane's NPC-Shields.oxp that would cost a lot and would show you the strength of the targeted NPC's shields in a similar way?
Thanks in advance,
Zireael

Zireael wrote:

Would it be possible, as an OXP, to have shield strength displayed either as units (say, 200/256) or as a percentage (say, 70%) in addition to the display bar we all know and love.

May I ask why? Why would we need anything displayed double? There is a shield strength indicator on the HUD. Why another one, displaying exactly the same thing? After all, we don't have a unit/percentage display for energy, cabin temperature, height, laser temperature, current roll/pitch/yaw-rate, or cargo capacity. Would you think we'd need those as well? And if not, why for shields of all things?

Zireael wrote:

In addition, could we have a Shield Strength Scanner as an add-on to McLane's NPC-Shields.oxp that would cost a lot and would show you the strength of the targeted NPC's shields in a similar way?

If you have shader support you see the shields through the glow effect. No glow = shields depleted.

Personally I think that's all the information you need. I wouldn't want a numeric display of NPC shields for the same reason that I don't want a numeric display of NPC-energy: That's the style of an arcade game, which Oolite isn't.

FFE is not arcade and it had them... but, good point.

I've had to think on this for a bit, and on part of it, I'm in agreement with Commander McLane. There isn't any logical way that the data for a precise readout of the status of a hostile NPC ship's shields would be available to the player. The big reason for that, as I understand it, is that in the core game the NPCs don't actually have shields. If you install Commander McLane's OXP, then they do, and you can see quite well if you're through their shields and chewing up their hull now or not. So, if they have shields, you can already tell if their shields are down while you're shooting. It makes sense and it definitely makes the game more interesting and fun in my opinion.

But so far as the player's own shields and and pretty much anything else displayed currently by a bar, I don't see it as particularly "arcade-like" to display some or all of it numerically. Plenty of arcade games did use some sort of "life bar" or things of that nature like Elite did and Oolite does. It's just data that is available normally to the player, and I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to display it in different ways.

I don't think I would actually want it displayed as *both* a bar and numerals, since the "real estate" for a ship HUD is already pretty limited without cluttering the screen more than I personally like. But if HUD OXP writers had the choice of how to display the data, it could give more variety in style, and some folks might like numerical better while others would prefer a bar display. I don't think it should change the default/vanilla HUD, but as an option left up to the aesthetic taste of the people who write or download HUD OXPs, it could be good.

I'd kind of like the throttle to display numerically either as a percentage or the actual speed of the player ship (speed would make the most sense to me). Altitude could be nice as a numerical, but would definitely take some getting used to. Fuel might make more sense as a numerical display, but how would the player be able to see conveniently if they still had enough for a planned jump? That could complicate actual gameplay. One piece of data that is already available that I'd rather see as a number "down below" on a panel style HUD would be the distance to whatever object we currently have ID lock or a missile lock on. When you get very close or the item is very large, that number moves off the screen, which is I think the worst possible time to have it do that. Especially with big stations and large ships like the Generation Ships, I'd like to know when I'm actually about to collide with them if I'm trying for a good screenshot. LOL

So far as player shields, a percentage could be ok, but I don't know for sure as I'd like it better than the bar. Same goes for cabin and weapon temps. "In the red" or "In the green" is usually what I'd think the player really wants to know there. But who's to say? Some people might think it was great as numerical info instead of bars.

But NPC shields don't make sense to me personally as something the player logically could have on their display. Especially not when we consider that NPC ships don't actually have shields unless you have the particular OXP for it installed. Flickering engines and/or the ship leaking plasma make more sense, and we already have that. Short of some day in the far flung future when we might actually see hull damage as holes blown in an opponent's ship, that's a pretty good indicator of what we need to know in a fight. It is as much (or in some cases more) than you'd get in most good air combat games.

I mentioned NPC shields as a OXP-addon-idea.

As for player readouts, I meant shields mostly, not the other things...

If it's an either/or, I'd agree.

Like Ganelon said, a HUD designer could choose for each of the readouts whether it's displayed as a bar or as digits. (Perhaps there are still other possibilities.) The question of course is which kind of digital display makes sense.

I'd go for percentage numbers, because absolute numbers are quite arbitrary and therefore don't mean a lot in and of themselves. Full shields could be 128, 256 or 384, a full energy bar is 64, full temperature is 1 (which makes fractions of it automatically into percentages), I don't know off the top of my head what full height is, and full speed would be different for each ship anyway. I think it could be less confusing to leave it at percentages. OTOH the absolute number tells you more immediately how good or bad your shield is compared to your last ship. So a point could also be made for it.

That's all said only about the player ship values on the HUD.

I am totally against displaying more numbers than we already have around a target reticle, especially the target's energy or shield strength. Yes, perhaps your ship's computer would be able to compute them from some scanner readouts, but for me it just doesn't fit into the type of game Oolite is. I like that Oolite doesn't remind me permanently that fighting is only about strength points.

Whilst I would not employ such a device in my ship - being happy with the way things are already displayed. I can see that some players would like this kind of addition in the form of an OXP - and why not?

If Commanders would prefer their Ooniverse to not have this addition, then like any other addition to the game, they are quite within their rights to not download the OXP. If on the other hand other Commanders would welcome a digital representation, then they can exercise their Ooniversal rights.

So long as this display is really just another HUD OXP and not a hard coded entity, then I see no reason why someone in the OXP designing community could not design this as stated and put it out there for use.

Just my 10Cr worth

H

Either/or it can be, sure.

As for the target's shield strength, if no one wants it, I'll drop the idea.

@above: Yes, it'd be an OXP and not hard-coded.

Greetings!
It's really interesting to see so many people looking for HUD style alternatives. The problem we face is the lack of predefined HUD tools/gadgets....so!? Just be creative and solve the problem in the only ways open to you.

In the past couple of days I ran a search of the word hud on this forum so I could see what kind of things people want/desire/have created concerning HUDS. I came across a desire on page 15/16 of that search concerning pie chart huds and it started me thinking...how would I create it if I wanted such a thing.

Then...I had a EUREKA moment where everything became clear. I drew a plan and using a stock 1.75.1 hud I created the equivalent of a pie chart guage! It was so obvious but I had never saw the need before so never thought about it. When you eventually see how I did it you are going to smack your melon and say Dohh! It could have been a stock hud many years ago it's so simple! The thing is it took a little work to make from scratch one guage(4 hours of trial and error) but now it looks good enough to include in a HUD and one can apply it to most of the guages except perhaps energy(not sure) and rpy(no need anyway).

As for numeric guages there is no easy fix but it IS doable. Problem is that it is only good for a couple of guages at most as the amount of work is exponential with every guage added. Might be reasonable for a readout for McClane's cannon and lots of work but worth it to add shield and energy readouts. I WILL attempt this project in the future.

You know, I only started javascripting in november 2010 and I haven't done any programming since the amiga went under 1993 or 1994. in fact I haven't had a computer since then only picking up an acer netbook on sale a year and a half ago and stubbled onto oolite while looking for elite freeware.I haven't been the same since.

In short order I'll be releasing a package of equipment installable classic look huds and I'll either add in or release as standalones the pie chart and numeric HUDS. As we speak I'm beginning the assembly of the pie chart HUD and will make it available when it's good enough to be useable.

I'm gonna post a thread about the pie chart guage and will ask for all requests for hud design be posted thier, the first information I want being about how those who want a pie chart would arrange them(guage size, placement, which guages, and what would be left traditional).

Your going to love this!

CommonSenseOTB wrote:

and stubbled onto oolite... I haven't been the same since.

No... neither have I, since I found this game (and this forum) two years ago.

El Viejo wrote:

CommonSenseOTB wrote:

and stubbled onto oolite... I haven't been the same since.

No... neither have I, since I found this game (and this forum) two years ago.

And we're very glad you did too!

As far as programming and gaming passions go, Oolite is a pretty good one. I'm glad I found it...rather wish I found it sooner, but I doubt my older computers would run it even as a choppy 20 fps.

As for shield strength shown as a number value, there was someone in IRC who wanted to know about making Oolite more accessible to the visually impaired. Showing shields as a number value might help them. Otherwise, I'd prefer it to be a percentage of whatevery max shield strength is.

Switeck wrote:

As for shield strength shown as a number value, there was someone in IRC who wanted to know about making Oolite more accessible to the visually impaired.

Really? I’d have thought a bar indicator would be easier to read (just as it is for the fully-sighted; unless you need to know, say, your speed with great precision, numerical displays are more of a gimmick than an advantage).

Switeck wrote:

there was someone in IRC who wanted to know about making Oolite more accessible to the visually impaired.

Said person's current project was to enable some sort of 'audio' for the advanced space compass (I think).
He has not returned yet, unfortunately... hopefully, he will.

I agree that pure numbers wouldn't help, but I like the idea of a percentage. The shield (or speed) bar should still be there for quick reference, but a percentage could give a more precise measurement if it was put above or beside. Could there be support added in the source code, so that it could turned on and off according to player preferences, provided that the hud.oxp maker included a position for it. That way, there wouldn't have to be a special remake of the hud in order to support numeric displays.
For example:
Front Shield
____________
|____________| 90%

Aft Shield
______
|______| 43%

Sorry, can't get the top bars quite right.