3D galaxy prototype

[ADCK]

Ahh, guess i made the rectangles much too big then

[CommonSenseOTB]

Each Oolite galaxy map is 102 light years wide by 51 tall. On the layout above that would give a circumference of around 1,000 light years. The circumference of our actual galaxy is estimated to be somewhere between 250,000 and 300,000 light years. Of course, Oolite has always had issues with scale!

When my coffee maker has issues of scale I find a little vinegar goes a long way. Of course oolite doesn't brew coffee...yet.

[Smivs]

When my coffee maker has issues of scale ....

When I started reading this I thought it was making ridiculously big coffees

[CommonSenseOTB]

Yeah just the other day I was having issues of scale when Slartibartfast showed up with a Vogon constructor fleet and a very large carafe'.

[Selezen]

In terms of my hypothesised Elite Universe, I correlate the "galactic hyperdrive" to the "wormhole bug" in Frontier - where you could hyperspace 60,000 light years in one jump.

The sectors (maps) are, in that continuity, scattered randomly through the galaxy at 60,000LY hops from each other in a 3-dimensional pattern, with G8 60,000 light years from G1 allowing the pilot to return to G1 on the last jump.

Seems a bit contrived, doesn't it?

[CommonSenseOTB]

Hi Selezen!

On a more serious side it was previously talked about that the saved game could be hacked and galaxy 9 could be explored. How many potential charts would be opened up if the game was changed at the core to allow with a special galdrive to go through all the other sectors. If you added all the potential sector charts that would be procedurally generated with this technique would they add up to the distance around the galaxy that you are talking about?

Myself, I'm almost an elite purest that would like to see elite(enhanced) and see more consistancy in things like ship design, huds, etc. That aside, I myself would like unlimited exploration. When you've gotten to ranking 'Elite' many times on different computers the idea of exploring other sectors outside GalCop is a tempting idea. Pehaps the 'special galdrive' would only be available to those of at least deadly rank as they can now handle themselves in most situations. The one thing needed to make this idea happen in an unlimited way is procedurally generated events, missions, solar systems, etc. This would improve the original 8 sectors and automatically make exploring the unknown possible without much more effort(for those that want to). I believe I read that destroying the main station makes the next station the main station so you could still save your game and take away the galcop presence around the main planet. I think this is also permanent. Add in some kind of precedurally generated stations(from a pool of non-galcop types) and it would be like a bizarro world experience(similar but different or opposite).

Or don't change the core game but use these ideas as the explanation for how the 8 charts fit together(the missing charts are not accessible). Either way, thanx to all of you for making the best re-creation of the best space-trading game of all time. Kudos to you all!

[ADCK]

The problem with Gal 9 and beyond is that eventually you'll run into an inescapable system.
Example: A system where you arrive without any Gal Drives for sale, and all other systems are greater than 7 light years away.

Plus Braben and Bell weeded out most of the nasties from Gal 1 to 8 when they made the original (Things like checking to make sure the randomly generated system names weren't profane, and that you don't get trapped)

[Commander McLane]

The problem with Gal 9 and beyond is that eventually you'll run into an inescapable system.
Example: A system where you arrive without any Gal Drives for sale, and all other systems are greater than 7 light years away.

Plus Braben and Bell weeded out most of the nasties from Gal 1 to 8 when they made the original (Things like checking to make sure the randomly generated system names weren't profane, and that you don't get trapped)

If the development team decides to add more galaxies following the current scheme, the nasties and the too disconnected galaxies would have to be weeded out as well.

If it becomes an OXP thing, then the OXP creator would have that responsibility. I wouldn't expect galaxies to be created randomly on the fly. If the scripter really knows nothing about the galaxy his player is jumping into, then he can't script anything useful in there anyway.

[ADCK]

Well if it was to follow the original quasi-randomly generated seed the first eight gals were created with, then it would need some tweaking. But if it wasn't randomly generated like the original eight then anything goes.

(Little factoid, the first eight galaxies are randomly generated, but they use the same seed every time so they appear the same on every copy...{Or at least that was the case back in Elite, could be static in Oolite AFAIK})

[Commander McLane]

The development team hasn't yet decided whether to keep the seed-model or throw it overboard in favour of something fully data-driven.

I was assuming the seed model, where OXPs (or the core game) could produce further galaxies with new seed values. Either way, whoever experiments with new seed values would have to make sure that the resulting galaxies have a reasonable layout etc.

It only gets truly unpredictable if random numbers are use for the seed values, meaning that no two players would have the same Galaxy 9. This wouldn't make for a good game.

[ADCK]

It only gets truly unpredictable if random numbers are use for the seed values, meaning that no two players would have the same Galaxy 9. This wouldn't make for a good game.

changing the seed value would also make the first 8 galaxies random too, which would be terrible.

[Commander McLane]

It only gets truly unpredictable if random numbers are use for the seed values, meaning that no two players would have the same Galaxy 9. This wouldn't make for a good game.

changing the seed value would also make the first 8 galaxies random too, which would be terrible.

I think we're misunderstanding each other.

When I say random for seed values I mean the individual seed values. Currently the seed consists of six one-byte integers (which are combined into three two-byte integers, I think).

So, if we had a JS-method to set the seed, we could create new seeds by setting arbitrary values, like

Code: Select all

this.setSeed(213, 56, 3, 12, 167, 253);

This resulting galaxy would have to be tested.

By the same mechanism also true random could be used:

Code: Select all

this.setSeed(Math.floor(Math.random() * 256), Math.floor(Math.random() * 256), Math.floor(Math.random() * 256), Math.floor(Math.random() * 256), Math.floor(Math.random() * 256), Math.floor(Math.random() * 256));

This would create an unpredictable, untestable and unreproducible Galaxy and would probably be frowned upon, even if technically possible.

[JensAyton]

As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, my tentative plan for 2.0 is to have completely data-driven galaxies. If it’s possible to add new galaxies, they’ll need to be defined in detail (although you could write an offline procedural generator).

[sholton]

Wouldn't it be a cruel turn of fate if it just so happened that every star system to the north, south, east and west of us (as well as above and below us) just happened to be that fraction of a bit over 7.0 LY distant. We would live in a truly 3D ooniverse, constrained to what some might think of as a set of eight flat, roughly rectangular galaxies exactly matching the Galcorp star maps we all know and love.

Only a commander with exceptional skills and insight would be able to find a way past that cruel wall...perhaps with a tactically-placed mis-jump....
.....but oh what an ooniverse awaits on the other side.

If the whole ooniverse is data driven, why not leave the original galaxies flat(ish) but allow all manner of 3D systems beyond the fence. It might need a different system of visualizing the navigation.

[drew]

My biggest objection to the charts is that they are rectangular and have an arbitary cut off.

I want to go explore the other side of Riedquat. I've heard rumours it's unfriendly, sounds like fun!

Cheers,

Drew.