Oolite Bulletins

anybody invested in a set of winter tyres?

3 years in a row now, 'proper' winter conditions in the UK is making me think it might be worthwhile.

Winter tyres? It's hard enough to find any tyres for my car, but then it is almost 30 years old with an obsolete wheel size.
Just one of the joys of running a 'classic'. A bit like a krait (or should that be crate?).

In Germany they are a legal requirement.
And even if that wasn't the case I'd buy them anyway - at least where I live you are lost without them.

i got a set of Toyo Proxes, recommended by a mate at work. got them on just as the first snow came. they *S U C K*, on snow. worthless, no grip. had them on tarmac during the brief thaw, and they're excellent. they are so useless on snow tho that i've had to order a pair of Uniroyal Rainmasters, hopefully get them on tomorrow before anything stupid falls out the sky.

I hear snow in London is not too common. Has the local news given any info on records broken?

XB7 wrote:

I hear snow in London is not too common. Has the local news given any info on records broken?

Fastest decent into barbarism?

All this talk about "unusual conditions" conceals one of the main problems, I think: a top-heavy system run by just-in-time ordering software. It works fine when everything is running within normal parameters, but by its nature it cuts out anything that might be considered "contingency", or "a safety margin". We've constructed systems that require such a level of minute-by-minute real-time recalculation that they can only be handled by computers: this has allowed firms to a) cut staff numbers, and b) turn on-site storage areas into valuable real estate. The problem is, no human being has any oversight or control. When something unusual happens, e.g. it gets a bit chilly and supply lines slow down, suddenly we're using more de-icer than normal and the resupply can't be met by the manufacturer (who is also using just-in-time ordering to produce the de-icer in the first place).

The system is too tight, basically. We need more slack. A less efficient system would work better. It costs more, though: you get what you pay for.

Heathrow is another large-scale prime example of this - as it's down to one runway, passengers are arriving at the rate of 100,000 more per day than are leaving, which is basically why BAA (who run the airport) have said "STAY AWAY".

The problem isn't all about the runway either - as clearing the gates is a rather more mandrolic process and BAA had neither the equipment or the equipment.

As the world's busiest International hub Heathrow has yet again fallen foul of BAA's decision that it doesn't need to invest in additional snow ploughs and de-icing equipment because these are unusual/exceptional circumstances - even though this is the 2nd time the airport has been shutdown because of snow this year and the 3rd time in 2 years...

There will be some post shame-faced hand-wringing but there was last time and still nothing has been done.

a hamlet called Chesham - only about 30 miles outside London - recorded a low temp of minus 19 Celsius. That's gotta be some sort of record.

If I do splash out on some winter tyres for next year, I will avoid the Toyo Proxies

If you're planning to get winter tyres, go for Nokian, Continental, Goodyear, Michelin or Pirelli. Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7 are the best spiked winter tyres, other aforementioned brands may have better non-spiked ones than Nokian.

This opinion is based on Finnish technology-/automotive magazine "Tekniikan Maailma" exclusive tests and personal experience.

But, as my father used to say: "the grip is between the driver's ears" (he drove almost 20 years exclusively on summer tyres, until it became mandatory to have witer tyres in Finland sometime in the seventies, and slid off the road only once during that time - and he had to drive all year round on poor roads in Lapland because of his work!).

Business Continuity Planning is a primary part of my RL™ career. One of the best examples of J-I-T balanced against BCP is Walmart's warehousing system. They employee their own meteorologists to provide separate analysis from the media. Every WalMart distribution center has sizable floorspace built and dedicated to BCP staging. IIRC - Nearly 1/3 of their floorspace in any given warehouse. This space cannot be used for stocking anything else. When they forecast a disaster, they pre-ship additional supplies to the distribution centers just outside the impacted area. When their own weathermen tell them it's time, they load the trucks from the staging area and roll in. This is how they were able to make it into New Orleans after Katrina before anyone else.

That level of preparedness comes with a sizable price tag. But it is as equally as impressive on their flexibility and agility to respond to customer requirements. If you ever have a chance to attend a talk by one of their BCP people, I heartily recommend it. I am a member of my local Association of Continuity Planners where their head of BCP gave a talk. Very insightful.

My J-I-T story isn't nearly so inspirational. A friend worked for a company – let's call them "Crapita" – subtitling TV programmes. The company decided to use just-in-time working methods for dealing with digital files, missing the point entirely and creating a built-in last-minute panic on every programme. Staff weren't allowed to work on things in advance: they were compelled to wait until the deadlines were screamingly thin before starting a job, because otherwise it wouldn't be done "just in time".

Disembodied wrote:

My J-I-T story isn't nearly so inspirational. A friend worked for a company – let's call them "Crapita" – subtitling TV programmes. The company decided to use just-in-time working methods for dealing with digital files, missing the point entirely and creating a built-in last-minute panic on every programme. Staff weren't allowed to work on things in advance: they were compelled to wait until the deadlines were screamingly thin before starting a job, because otherwise it wouldn't be done "just in time".

Oh dear - oh dear - oh dear.

Of course another classic JIT (near) disaster was Nissan's Sunderland plant, that didn't take into account the team doing so well in the FA Cup - and an unexpected large capacity home game and thus full roads, ground the factory to a halt...

I think in a lot of EU countries it's the law to have two sets of tyres for your car, certainly the case up where i am in Sweden. Have a set of Continentals for our little Clio which as long as you don't expect a vice like grip in 2ft of snow, work great, we opted for the non-studded version.

Then in April we convert back to normal summer tyres which also means i can get my motorbike out lol. It's not law on motorbikes but only the brain dead take their bikes out while it's snowing...

OK, background first.
I'm Norwegian, but I have lived in the UK three times, totalling a period of just over 7 years.

Now, when it comes to driving in the UK during winter conditions I have been accused of being somewhat of a coward. I absolutely refuse to drive on summer tyres when there is snow on the road. I know how summer tyres behave in snowy conditions, and as far as I am concerned, you have a better chance playing Russian roulette. So, if you are dependant on using your car year round, investing in winter tyres is comparable to investing in life.

When it comes to winter tyres, there are a lot of things to consider. Winter tyres bought in the UK are not the same as those you get in Scandinavia or even in the Alps. Basically, winter tyres sold in the UK are intended for snow/sleet conditions with a temperature of -2 to +10. Don't even consider using those in Scandinavia or in the Alps. Winter tyres bought in Scandinavia are intended for lower temperatures, and for Snow/Ice covered roads where Salt is not used. There is a huge difference. It is all down to how fast the tyres wear out, grip, performance on wet snow, dry snow and ice.

Now, there are alternatives. Both snow chains and "snow socks" are options if you only need to travel short distances on snowy roads. But as I said, if you are dependant on complete freedom of movement using your car, snow/winter tyres are a good investment even in the UK. If I ever move back (and I hope I do) I will bring my snow tyres (Having learned from experience).