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Good to be back
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 7:42 am
by Cmdr Sos
First post here, after a few weeks of playing this version of the grand ol' game.
Like others here, I cut my space teeth on the BBC Elite waaaaay back in the mid 80's, moving to the DOS version and finally getting furthest on the NES version (one of the best, IMHO).
Anway, without wanting to kick up dust on my first post - is it possible to rename the 'OOlite-PC' subforum to 'OOlite-Win' - since that more accurately reflects matters?
I have a PC, but like many here, don't run MS Windows on it. If this has been discussed and decided previously, please disregard this. If it's for historical reasons, that is that the PC version originally referred to a Microsoft OS version (DOS), then, well, okay I suppose, although technically the first 'PC' version was on the Acorn and BBC Micro personal computers.
To equate OOlite-PC with Windows doesn't quite seem to homage the fact that the 'original' Oolite came out when Windows wasn't even a twinkle in Bill's eye.
Right on!
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:29 am
by Smivs
Hi Cmd Sos, and welcome to the friendliest board this side of Riedquat.
I think this is sort of historical. The use of the term PC goes back to the first IBM PC (personal computer) which ran Windows OS, and using the term PC for Windows machines seems to have become a bit of a convention - a bit like calling vacuum cleaners 'Hoovers'. My sister even calls her Dyson a Hoover!
Strictly, by todays useage, what you and me use is a 'Desktop' computer, but like many I think of it as a PC even though, like yours, mine is totally free of any Microsoft software.
Smivs (Ubuntu 10.04).
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:39 am
by drew
Welcome aboard, Commander!
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:29 am
by Fatleaf
Smivs wrote:
Strictly, by todays useage, what you and me use is a 'Desktop' computer,
But I use a "laptop"
And welcome commander.
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:43 am
by Smivs
Fatleaf wrote:Smivs wrote:
Strictly, by todays useage, what you and me use is a 'Desktop' computer,
But I use a "laptop"
And welcome commander.
My 'laptop' is small, furry, and purrs a lot, which is why my computer lives on the desk.
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:29 am
by Cmdr Sos
Thanks for the friendly welcome and replies to my (thankfully not offensive) post!
Needless to say, I'm already enjoying your retextures and Boa Clipper (=Boa Clipper II?) - you don't want to know how many milk runs in the cobra, then python that took - hey, I had a slow couple of days.
That original PC was far to old for any form of 'windows'... I'd still plump for a rename, but that's enough about that.
[see wikipedia "IBM Personal Computer"]
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:46 am
by Rxke
Hi,
Well I guess the 'I'm a mac, I'm a pc' commercials didn't make things clearer, either....
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:13 am
by Eric Walch
Smivs wrote:like many I think of it as a PC even though, like yours, mine is totally free of any Microsoft software.
Smivs (Ubuntu 10.04).
My first 'PC' experiences were on a C64 and an Apple II. From the apple I am sure is used Microsoft Basic as default. The C64 had almost the same basic engine, so I assume it was from Microsoft also. I never had problems with this software, so they made reliable software in the past.
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:43 am
by Commander McLane
Eric Walch wrote:Smivs wrote:like many I think of it as a PC even though, like yours, mine is totally free of any Microsoft software.
Smivs (Ubuntu 10.04).
My first 'PC' experiences were on a C64 and an Apple II. From the apple I am sure is used Microsoft Basic as default. The C64 had almost the same basic engine, so I assume it was from Microsoft also. I never had problems with this software, so they made reliable software in the past.
Seems you're right:
Wikipedia wrote:Commodore BASIC, also known as PET BASIC, is the dialect of the BASIC programming language used in Commodore International's 8-bit home computer line, stretching from the PET of 1977 to the C128 of 1985. The core was based on 6502 Microsoft BASIC, and as such it shares most of the core code with other 6502 BASICs of the time, such as Applesoft BASIC.
...
Commodore licensed BASIC from Microsoft on a "pay once, no royalties" basis for 25 000 US$ (Different sources range this amount between 10 000 and 30 000 US$). Bill Gates first offered it at a 3 US$ per unit royalty fee but Jack Tramiel turned it down stating "I'm already married", said he would pay no more than 25 000 US$ for a perpetual license and Gates later came back and accepted the deal. Commodore took the source code of the flat-fee BASIC and further developed it internally for all their other 8-bit home computers. It wasn't until the Commodore 128 (with V7.0) that a Microsoft copyright notice was displayed. However, Microsoft had built an easter egg into the version 2 or "upgrade" Commodore Basic that proved its provenance: typing the (obscure) command WAIT 6502, 1 would result in Microsoft! appearing on the screen. (The easter egg was well concealed—the message did not show up in any disassembly of the interpreter.)
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:48 am
by DaddyHoggy
Well I never, I peeked and poked my way around C64 basic for years and never realised it was based on M$!
Some of my most creative programming ever was in C64 basic...
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:34 am
by Commander McLane
I particularly like the "no royalties" part. Think about it: Tramiel sold 22 million units of the C64 alone, not to mention his other computers! Bill Gates must have been crazy in hindsight that he got only 25.000 bucks out of the deal. Even if he had managed to make one single dollar in royalties per unit, this deal alone would have made him rich...
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:25 pm
by DaddyHoggy
But didn't Bill allegedly rip M$-DOS from DR-DOS? (I ask because if true he made $25K out of something that wasn't really his to sell in the first place)
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:38 pm
by Commander McLane
DaddyHoggy wrote:But didn't Bill allegedly rip M$-DOS from DR-DOS?
Don't know. Anyway, we're talking about MS-BASIC here, not MS-DOS.
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:52 pm
by DaddyHoggy
Commander McLane wrote:DaddyHoggy wrote:But didn't Bill allegedly rip M$-DOS from DR-DOS?
Don't know. Anyway, we're talking about MS-BASIC here, not MS-DOS.
OK, maybe I do have a hangover from last night (or at least lack of sleep!)
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:53 pm
by Kaks
And - just to be precise - they ripped off DR's CP/M, & only afterwards DR developed CP/M-86 (aka DR DOS) to kind of return the compliment...
