Oolite Bulletins

Posted: **Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:45 am**

I'm a bit confused about shaders and things...

Does Oolite sometimes take a while to load things, while running?

I've just downloaded the neolite core, companion and wolfies oxps (and most of the other oxps from Simon B's site, but haven't started installing them yet!) and am getting some odd effects.

Just adding the companion and wolfies oxps runs with no problems. Neither of these use shaders.

Just adding the core set results in a blue neolite cobby at start up, and all the neolite ships are blue. Also, so are ADCK's Eagles, which also use the neolite shaders (which aren't in the eagles oxp, but are in the neolite core)

Running with all 3 installed results in a blue cobby on start up, and blue neolite ships initially, which after a few seconds sort themselves out and are properly textured.

Note that they are the same adder, just 6 seconds apart.

Also, the eagles now have glowing engines. So presumably they work.

What's more, selecting "begin new game" from the menu now results in seeing the proper neo-cobby.

If this has something to do with load order, this is the order they load in:
neolite.oxp
neolite-wolfies.oxp
adcks_eagles_v1.1.oxp
neolite-companion.oxp
(with, of course, all my other oxps amongst them as well...)

[It occurs to me that the hud always takes a while to load as well. As you can see from the screenshots, upon startup it is always the default hud that shows. The MilHud only seems to start running once I leave the station. Although, as you can see from above, if I select the option to start a new game from within an already running game, I get the MilHud...]

So, if I run all three, then the shaders in core neolite appear to work, despite there being no shaders in the other two as far as I can tell. Which means that I do not necessarily have a functional problem as such, but I'd like to know what the underlying cause of this is. I've had similar problems with ADCK's Behemoths, which caused Griffs ships (only some of them!) to turn this unnatural colour, and the same thing with shady_sungs (though I can't remember which ships were turning blue, only that some were and it stopped when I took them out). If anyone can work out why in this case the problem seems to resolve itself, perhaps I can do something about the others...

I'm running shader mode "Simple" (the best my computer can do), and there are no errors that show up in the log file (apart from the eagles wanting the neolite shaders, but that's not the issue here).

Congratulations if you managed to get through all of that! Have a well earned round of applause!

Posted: **Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:23 pm**

Seems Oolite fixes some things silently. It's likely to be the implicit cast for texture units and the oxps have to be changed (if it's the case - didn't took a look).

Posted: **Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:38 pm**

Now that Ramirez has altered The Feudal States to ban turreted ships from taking part in competitions, I'm now trying to find a new ship. It seems I'm becoming somewhat fickle, and it may be time to say goodbye to my Caduceus and find a new favourite.

So, I downloaded a bunch of new oxps.

What I found was that when I initially load my game, the neolite core ships in the shipyard turn that shiny blue colour. For me, this is becoming increasingly familiar.

However, if I load a different savegame first, which has different neolite ships in the shipyard, and then switch to my main savegame, the ships are textured properly. But this only works with at least one of my old savegames, not all of them.

And of course, whenever one changes the oxps in the AddOns folder (or at least the ones that add ships to the shipyard), the ships available in the shipyard change, and I won't know what old savegame might sort this out.

I really don't know why my computer seems to love these blue ships so much...

Posted: **Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:08 pm**

Hmm very odd, it seems it's taking Oolite a short a while to load in and display the diffuse texture for some reason, i wonder if it's having to rescale them first? in the version of neoolite i've got om my computer, the neokrait_auv.png and neoworm_auv.png texture files are 512x513 (there could be more, i've only got the noelite feb 3 2009 preview version of the oxp downloaded), maybe you could try resizing these to 512x512 and restarting oolite with the shift key down to clear the cache and see if this helps?

Posted: **Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:53 pm**

Diolch Griff, interesting idea! I'll have a look through the files later tonight and see what happens!

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:23 pm**

Same problem here... I alredy tried to disable all oxp exept neolite, but without results. The only way to make it work, is by disabling shaders.

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19:18:52.601 [log.header]: Opening log for Oolite version 1.76.1 (x86-64 test release) under Linux at 2012-07-31 19:18:52 +0200.
4 processors detected.
Build options: spoken messages, mass/fuel pricing, JavaScript console support, OXP verifier, localization tools, debug GraphViz support, JavaScript profiling.

Note that the contents of the log file can be adjusted by editing logcontrol.plist.

19:18:52.652 [display.mode.list.native]: X11 native resolution detected: 1920 x 1200
19:18:52.690 [joystick.init]: Number of joysticks detected: 1
19:18:52.706 [rendering.opengl.version]: OpenGL renderer version: 2.1.0 ("2.1 Mesa 8.0.4"). Vendor: "X.Org". Renderer: "Gallium 0.4 on AMD RV730".
19:18:52.706 [rendering.opengl.extensions]: OpenGL extensions (154):
GL_ATI_texture_mirror_once, GL_ARB_framebuffer_sRGB, GL_AMD_draw_buffers_blend, GL_ARB_depth_texture, GL_MESA_texture_array, GL_ARB_texture_env_add, GL_NV_texture_barrier, GL_EXT_pixel_buffer_object, GL_EXT_texture_compression_rgtc, GL_ARB_half_float_vertex, GL_IBM_multimode_draw_arrays, GL_EXT_texture3D, GL_EXT_compiled_vertex_array, GL_EXT_texture_shared_exponent, GL_ARB_framebuffer_object, GL_EXT_separate_specular_color, GL_EXT_shadow_funcs, GL_ARB_shader_texture_lod, GL_EXT_texture_cube_map, GL_EXT_rescale_normal, GL_ARB_texture_rgb10_a2ui, GL_ATI_draw_buffers, GL_ARB_transpose_matrix, GL_ARB_texture_compression_rgtc, GL_ARB_half_float_pixel, GL_EXT_stencil_two_side, GL_ARB_texture_border_clamp, GL_ARB_multisample, GL_ATI_separate_stencil, GL_ARB_texture_non_power_of_two, GL_NV_fog_distance, GL_INGR_blend_func_separate, GL_EXT_bgra, GL_ARB_sync, GL_EXT_texture_env_dot3, GL_EXT_provoking_vertex, GL_APPLE_packed_pixels, GL_NV_light_max_exponent, GL_ARB_sampler_objects, GL_SUN_multi_draw_arrays, GL_ARB_map_buffer_range, GL_ARB_vertex_shader, GL_ARB_shader_objects, GL_NV_texgen_reflection, GL_EXT_multi_draw_arrays, GL_ARB_vertex_program, GL_IBM_rasterpos_clip, GL_EXT_texture_object, GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3, GL_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB, GL_ARB_texture_float, GL_NV_texture_env_combine4, GL_ARB_draw_buffers_blend, GL_AMD_shader_stencil_export, GL_ATI_texture_compression_3dc, GL_ARB_fragment_coord_conventions, GL_EXT_stencil_wrap, GL_EXT_texture_swizzle, GL_EXT_framebuffer_blit, GL_NV_primitive_restart, GL_MESA_pack_invert, GL_ARB_vertex_array_bgra, GL_NV_packed_depth_stencil, GL_ARB_texture_compression, GL_ARB_vertex_array_object, GL_EXT_blend_color, GL_EXT_blend_minmax, GL_ARB_texture_swizzle, GL_APPLE_vertex_array_object, GL_EXT_subtexture, GL_ARB_occlusion_query2, GL_MESA_texture_signed_rgba, GL_ARB_point_sprite, GL_ARB_depth_clamp, GL_NV_depth_clamp, GL_EXT_vertex_array, GL_EXT_abgr, GL_ARB_vertex_buffer_object, GL_NV_blend_square, GL_ARB_instanced_arrays, GL_EXT_framebuffer_multisample, GL_NV_conditional_render, GL_NV_texture_rectangle, GL_ARB_multitexture, GL_EXT_texture, GL_ARB_seamless_cube_map, GL_EXT_vertex_array_bgra, GL_ARB_copy_buffer, GL_ARB_draw_elements_base_vertex, GL_ARB_shadow, GL_EXT_blend_subtract, GL_EXT_separate_shader_objects, GL_ARB_fragment_program_shadow, GL_MESA_window_pos, GL_ARB_texture_storage, GL_ARB_shader_stencil_export, GL_ARB_window_pos, GL_EXT_texture_lod_bias, GL_IBM_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_EXT_texture_snorm, GL_ARB_texture_env_crossbar, GL_ARB_point_parameters, GL_ARB_depth_buffer_float, GL_ARB_vertex_type_2_10_10_10_rev, GL_EXT_texture_sRGB_decode, GL_ARB_robustness, GL_ARB_texture_rg, GL_EXT_timer_query, GL_EXT_texture_edge_clamp, GL_EXT_copy_texture, GL_EXT_texture_sRGB, GL_ARB_texture_env_combine, GL_ARB_fragment_program, GL_ARB_explicit_attrib_location, GL_EXT_packed_float, GL_EXT_texture_filter_anisotropic, GL_EXT_draw_range_elements, GL_ARB_pixel_buffer_object, GL_EXT_packed_depth_stencil, GL_ARB_texture_rectangle, GL_EXT_fog_coord, GL_ARB_ES2_compatibility, GL_SGIS_texture_lod, GL_EXT_gpu_program_parameters, GL_ARB_fragment_shader, GL_OES_EGL_image, GL_EXT_polygon_offset, GL_ARB_shading_language_100, GL_SGIS_texture_border_clamp, GL_EXT_secondary_color, GL_EXT_point_parameters, GL_ARB_draw_buffers, GL_SGIS_generate_mipmap, GL_EXT_draw_buffers2, GL_EXT_texture_rectangle, GL_ATI_blend_equation_separate, GL_OES_read_format, GL_EXT_blend_func_separate, GL_ARB_texture_cube_map, GL_EXT_texture_array, GL_ARB_occlusion_query, GL_EXT_texture_mirror_clamp, GL_EXT_framebuffer_object, GL_EXT_packed_pixels, GL_ARB_texture_mirrored_repeat, GL_ARB_texture_env_dot3, GL_EXT_texture_compression_latc, GL_ARB_provoking_vertex, GL_EXT_blend_equation_separate, GL_ARB_color_buffer_float, GL_ATI_texture_float, GL_EXT_texture_env_add, GL_EXT_texture_env_combine, GL_SGIS_texture_edge_clamp
19:18:52.710 [rendering.opengl.gpuSpecific]: Matched GPU configuration "ATI R600/R700 family (X/Gallium3D)".
19:18:52.710 [rendering.opengl.shader.support]: Shaders are supported.
19:18:52.710 [speech.synthesis]: Spoken messages are off.
19:18:52.727 [searchPaths.dumpAll]: Unrestricted mode - resource paths:
    /usr/share/oolite/Resources
    ~/.Oolite/AddOns
    ~/.Oolite/AddOns/Neolite_Core_Resources_B_1.1.oxp
    ~/.Oolite/AddOns/Neolite_Core_Resources_A_1.1.oxp
    ~/.Oolite/AddOns/Neolite_Core_Addition_1.1.1.oxp
19:18:52.882 [script.javascript.init]: JavaScript reset successful.
19:18:52.886 [script.load.world.listAll]: Loaded 5 world scripts:
    oolite-cloaking-device 1.76.1
    oolite-constrictor-hunt 1.76.1
    oolite-nova 1.76.1
    oolite-thargoid-plans 1.76.1
    oolite-trumbles 1.76.1
19:18:53.172 [texture.load.png.error]: ***** A PNG loading error occurred for /home/stefano/.Oolite/AddOns/Neolite_Core_Resources_B_1.1.oxp/Textures/alien-coriolis-fxm.png: bad adaptive filter value.
19:18:53.173 [texture.load.png.error]: ***** A PNG loading error occurred for /home/stefano/.Oolite/AddOns/Neolite_Core_Resources_B_1.1.oxp/Textures/alien-coriolis.png: bad adaptive filter value.
19:18:53.408 [loading.complete]: ========== Loading complete. ==========
19:19:04.436 [gameController.exitApp]: .GNUstepDefaults synchronized.

Closing log at 2012-07-31 19:19:04 +0200.

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:14 pm**

Please try one thing. Remove the fouth component in the passed uniforms (shipdata.plist). There are 75 entries for SpecularRGB.

Currently

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SpecularRGB = { type = vector; value = "1.0 0.7 0.5 1.0";};

change to

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SpecularRGB = { type = "vector"; value = "1.0 0.7 0.5";};

Posted: **Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:05 pm**

This time, I tried with the replacement oxp.
I changed all the entries, but it didn't work.

And I got the same log.

Neolite Companion and Wolfies alone (no replacement and resources) works "almost" right. I changed a save file to try the cobra 3 courier. When I loaded it, the ship wasn't blue, but it had strange reflections (screenshot)

In the log I read this

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00:40:28.428 [shader.uniform.unpermittedMethod]: Did not bind uniform "alertlevel" to property -[ShipEntity alertCondition] - unpermitted method.

and no errors or warnings.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:19 am**

That blue looks like it's using the normal-map information as the diffuse too. I've noticed mix-ups also with Z-groovys cobra3 repaints, it seems sometimes the information is getting crossed over and incorrect maps are being used. As much as it sometimes looks like a cool paint effect with the repaint's, it seems the diffuse is being used as specular information in these occurrances (same as tichy's strange reflections) before they were recently made shader independant. They work without this error anymore for me.
I don't know about shaders but I have an understanding of how to use the different maps and it definately looks like they're getting mixed up.
Are there similar sets of shader with slight variations? Maybe this is where the information is getting jumbled?

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:50 am**

Random Hits includes the Neolite ships. When I see them in the mission screens, they seems to look right. However, dont'know if they are shaded, because I never seen the Neolite ships with shading enabled and I can't compare them.

When I took the screenshot of Cobra Courier, I had Random Hits installed. Could it be that Random Hits ship maps get mixed with Neolite maps, and that's causes the strange reflection?

However, when I tested the Neolite Core ships, which appeared blue, I had only Neolite_Core_Addition_1.1.1.oxp, Neolite_Core_Resources_A_1.1.oxp and Neolite_Core_Resources_B_1.1.oxp.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:17 am**

I want to clarify that Oolite never shows a model without having fully loaded all its texture maps.

The screen shots above are indeed showing normal maps instead of diffuse maps. I’m not sure exactly why, but it’s almost certainly some combination of the shaders, the shipdata.plist configuration, and the graphics driver.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:30 am**

I had the same problem, with both Neolites & Shady Sung: see this thread for screenshots & logs. (I actually joined this forum back in the day because of this problem.)

I ended up removing all Shady Sung ships & those Neolites which had the problem.

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:05 pm**

Is this then particular to nVidia? What are others here using?

Posted: **Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:15 pm**

ZygoUgo wrote:
Is this then particular to nVidia? What are others here using?

Ati HD4650 and Intel i965 (two different machines). Both with the latest linux free (non proprietary) drivers, on Arch Gnu-Linux 64bit.

Posted: **Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:33 am**

I guess we'll never gnome

The best I can offer is to take a look at if the different maps are being stored in different orders (RGBA)
I'll take a look after work but I doubt very much it's this.

Oolite Bulletins

The curse of the shiny blue ships strikes again!

The curse of the shiny blue ships strikes again!

Re: The curse of the shiny blue ships strikes again!

Re: The curse of the shiny blue ships strikes again!

Re: The curse of the shiny blue ships strikes again!

Re: The curse of the shiny blue ships strikes again!

Re: The curse of the shiny blue ships strikes again!

Re: The curse of the shiny blue ships strikes again!

Re: The curse of the shiny blue ships strikes again!

Re: The curse of the shiny blue ships strikes again!

Re: The curse of the shiny blue ships strikes again!

Re: The curse of the shiny blue ships strikes again!