Oolite Bulletins

Do traders fly from the planet to the WitchSpace beacon? If so, why? (Handwavium acceptable)

I don't think they do, no ... I've not checked with a debug console or anything but the only non-police, non-pirate ships I've seen flying outbound to the witchpoint are hunter-types. I've always assumed that traders fly inwards, cops and bounty hunters patrol outwards, and pirates hang about in the middle.

That would make sense...

Next up: What about ships in general from the WitchSpace beacon to the sun (to fuel scoop)? I don't really recall seeing any ships do that but I might be inclined to if I'm system-hopping for one reason or another (legal issues/contracts etc.)

If I understand correctly the two main lanes are WitchSpace Beacon -> Planet (Space Station), and Space Station -> Sun. I would have thought there'd be more of a triangle going on. (perhaps there is already)

Why would a ‘clean’ npc trader fly from the witchpoint to the sun to skim? They emerge and make best speed for the station, along the ‘safe’ spacelanes. Mind you, they do sometimes head out from the station to the sun to skim, which seems a bit odd.

El Viejo wrote:

Why would a ‘clean’ npc trader fly from the witchpoint to the sun to skim? They emerge and make best speed for the station, along the ‘safe’ spacelanes. Mind you, they do sometimes head out from the station to the sun to skim, which seems a bit odd.

To fulfil a bulk-trade contract? Why head to the Station when you can get fuel for free? It might be quicker too since time elapses at Space Stations when you leave, although granted I've never really paid close enough attention to see exactly how much time.

Naturally, I'm answering in practical terms rather than game-mechanics terms. I'm assuming in reality traders don't have bulk contracts in-game.

Ah… I hadn’t considered bulk contracts, but the cost of fuel is trifling, and for a slow-moving bulk-hauler, I doubt that there is much time to be saved by flying to the sun, and possibly more risk.

I think that it’s ten minutes for each launching, and twenty minutes for each docking.

I guess I should have explained my whole train of thought better... one of the things I love about Oolite (and partially Elite) is the fact that other ships are going about their business (even though I know their business is finite within the current system only). Not only that but the ships interact and in general there's a great illusion that something bigger than yourself is going on. I love this illusion, even today.

So from that perspective I'm always questioning what other ships are or aren't doing. In particular, I've been thinking about where I encounter ships and why they're there. I wasn't sure if I'd seen other trade ships heading to the WitchSpace beacon or not, but if I had then I wasn't able to explain to myself why they would do that.

The only times I do that is if:
a) I'm deliberately trying to run into other ships, either for piracy or bounty hunting
b) I passed/left some cargo that I didn't have room to scoop on my way to the Station and so am going back to find (which is rare but it has happened).

Given those conditions and that I can't think of any other reasons (not to say there aren't any) then I can't see any reason why a trader would be heading to the WitchSpace beacon unless it was for some (illicit? ) rendezvous or other handwavium activity.

Of course, this then leads me to think about ships' movement around a system in general. The bulk contracts example I gave above might be weak but it holds for any contract: passenger/hit etc etc, where exceptionally large vessels are not necessarily required, and maybe extra discretion is such that avoiding Space Stations is a good idea.

It's not really important and perhaps I'm thinking about this waaaay to much... but still Elite fascinated me as a kid and Oolite holds that same fascination today.

Immersion is what it’s all about… I love the idea that all the other ships are going about their own business, be it fighting each other or trading. I know that npcs don’t have torus drives, but in my immersion-mode Ooniverse, they do… I just never witness it, because as soon as they’re on my scan, they’re mass-locked, just as I am.

El Viejo wrote:

Immersion is what it’s all about… I love the idea that all the other ships are going about their own business, be it fighting each other or trading. I know that npcs don’t have torus drives, but in my immersion-mode Ooniverse, they do… I just never witness it, because as soon as they’re on my scan, they’re mass-locked, just as I am.

That's exactly the way I imagine it. Seriously!

Darkbee wrote:

I guess I should have explained my whole train of thought better... one of the things I love about Oolite (and partially Elite) is the fact that other ships are going about their business (even though I know their business is finite within the current system only). Not only that but the ships interact and in general there's a great illusion that something bigger than yourself is going on. I love this illusion, even today.

Oolite is full of detail that an average player never will notice.

For example: When a ship that flies in bright sunlight is fighting against a ship that hides himself in the shade of a station, the chance of firing at him is 25% of the normal value. Its just hard to find objects in a dark area when you are in the full sun. But when you are not carefully comparing situations, you'll never notice that Oolite takes thin into account.

Eric Walch wrote:

Oolite is full of detail that an average player never will notice.

Indeed, this is one of the things I enjoy in Oolite, the little details that noone would normally notice. Here is another one:
Thargoids' chance of presence inside a system (i.e. not witchspace) is considerably higher in systems with human colonial population: 10% versus 3% for non-human inhabited systems. It looks like the Thargoids are particularly unhappy with the human race being around.

another_commander wrote:

Thargoids' chance of presence inside a system (i.e. not witchspace) is considerably higher in systems with human colonial population: 10% versus 3% for non-human inhabited systems. It looks like the Thargoids are particularly unhappy with the human race being around.

This is good... all part of the 'lore' of the Ooniverse.

another_commander wrote:

Thargoids are particularly unhappy with the human race being around.

Well what do you expect....only having two legs is weird, perverse even.

Darkbee wrote:

What about ships in general from the WitchSpace beacon to the sun (to fuel scoop)? I don't really recall seeing any ships do that but I might be inclined to if I'm system-hopping for one reason or another (legal issues/contracts etc.)

If I understand correctly the two main lanes are WitchSpace Beacon -> Planet (Space Station), and Space Station -> Sun. I would have thought there'd be more of a triangle going on. (perhaps there is already)

As nobody has yet replied to this, I'll be happy to step in.

Your suspicions are correct: there is a triangle going on (and always has been). Take it just as another example of things a normal player would hardly notice. For each trader entering at the witchpoint there is a one-in-three chance that he will go sunskimming, and not to the station. Not only this, but Oolite also regularly adds traders to the witchpoint-sun route when the player first enters the system; just like the witchpoint-planet route gets populated. So you will always find traders between witchpoint and sun.

As for the original question, concerning traders en route to the witchpoint: No, this never happens. After launching from the main station, traders always jump out, which makes sense, because that's what you would expect them to do, and it's what the player usually does as well.

One could, as a suggestion, think about giving them a small chance to go sunskimming first. But as it is now, if there is a route without noticable traffic, it's the planet-sun route, not the witchspace-sun route.

Commander McLane wrote:

But as it is now, if there is a route without noticable traffic, it's the planet-sun route, not the witchspace-sun route.

First, thanks for your valiant efforts at getting this post back on topic...

Second, that is very interesting indeed as it seems completely contra to my casual observations. I don't recall running into any ships when trying to, for example, lower my legal status by system-hopping via the witchspace-sun route. However, I am almost certain that I've encountered ships when going from planet to sun (or vice versa).

I guess there are two things at play here:

1. Number of ships = small and system = big, thus your chances of meeting ships in general is reasonably small. Especially when you factor in that other ships could be destroyed (by other ships) within minutes of you entering the system.
2. My memory is incomplete and possibly recalling things incorrectly in accordance with what I think it should be rather than what it actually is. i.e. psychological factors, much in the same way we perceived things that happened in the original Elite (as kids) but they didn't really happen at all, it was just a minds filling in the blanks.

These two things combined are probably going to give me a skewed view of the Ooniverse. Probably if I could see the locations off all ships within a system at any given moment and their relative movements, I see a completely different picture. I guess that's the picture that I'm trying to see, but I really have no need to at all.

Btw, are you saying I'm not a "normal" player?