Oolite Bulletins

http://tuppe666.tripod.com/index.htm

What do you want blood!!

Nice descriptive topic title

So... What is your point? Are we supposed to be able to mind-read?
What do you mean with "what do you want blood!!"

Nice pic BTW.

Ugly icons, screen clutter, etc. I suppose it does suck IMO

But there will be those who think it's 'a good idea', so I won't go into a lengthy post by pro-conning it.

Oolite is fine as it is.

I had, to be fair spent a long time, trying in dispare to get an offsite picture from somewhere to work in this forum, and it had got rather late to make a resonable point.

I thought I'd make a stab at giving, oolite a little bit of colour. I had a bash at impoving useability, and was having a look at what would work.

The picture which I hope if fairly explanitory, Shows my current HUD, and Icons representing function keys 1-12, Obviously they are not needed for regular players(screen Clutter), but new players of oolitecould could find them useful. Or the could be used in a menu, or as part of the title etc etc.

Ah, Ok.
Thanks.

But... Some of the icons, while looking good, are non-intuitive to me... or confusing, like the last 2, are those screen resize-buttons, but then why put them up, there are already buttons, upper right that do the same?
Or is it a switch to fullscreen? Isn't that overkill? I mean most games haave that option not on-screen, but at a gameoptionsmenu...

It does give the game a more modern look instantaneously, though...

Jaybee wrote:

Ugly icons, screen clutter, etc. I suppose it does suck IMO

But there will be those who think it's 'a good idea', so I won't go into a lengthy post by pro-conning it.

Oolite is fine as it is.

lol I just wrote clutter. They are UGLY, but I make no claim to be a graphics wizz, although it must be said they turned out better than I'd hoped. For a first shot 8 hours work.

What is clear to me now is 3 things that were not clear to me before.

1) The interface(not just the HUD), needs a lot of pretty to before it sees an improvement.

2) The press a key twice for subscreen when docked is not good, although as to an alternative, This approach is quite possibly worse.

3) Vector based/SVG is looking in my mind the way to go.

Rxke wrote:

Ah, Ok.
Thanks.

But... Some of the icons, while looking good, are non-intuitive to me... or confusing, like the last 2, are those screen resize-buttons, but then why put them up, there are already buttons, upper right that do the same?
Or is it a switch to fullscreen? Isn't that overkill? I mean most games haave that option not on-screen, but at a gameoptionsmenu...

It does give the game a more modern look instantaneously, though...

non-intuative thats the one thing I though I had got right, the last two I did from examples elsewhere, I am just not good enough to think of anything better. It is perhaps overkill. I initially did 3 icons, and then thought I would put the rest in for completeness.

I do agree a gameoptions menu should contain the option to change screen size. Oddly I don't think oolite does, the resize button(f11) resizes the defination in my case 640x480; 800x600; 1240x1024;1600x1200, where fullscreen(f12) means just that fullscreen not maximised. As a shortcut Its the one I use most. I cruse while checking out my stars online, having oolite windowed 640x480, and when I get a warning go into fullscreen 1600x1200;dropping to a lower resolution if my frames drop.

tupe666 wrote:

Jaybee wrote:

Ugly icons, screen clutter, etc. I suppose it does suck IMO

But there will be those who think it's 'a good idea', so I won't go into a lengthy post by pro-conning it.

Oolite is fine as it is.

lol I just wrote clutter. They are UGLY, but I make no claim to be a graphics wizz, although it must be said they turned out better than I'd hoped. For a first shot 8 hours work.

What is clear to me now is 3 things that were not clear to me before.

1) The interface(not just the HUD), needs a lot of pretty to before it sees an improvement.

2) The press a key twice for subscreen when docked is not good, although as to an alternative, This approach is quite possibly worse.

3) Vector based/SVG is looking in my mind the way to go.

I don't think I could have done any better, but I don't like the idea of making it look like 'Frontier'. However, I can see what you are trying to achieve and perhaps Oolite could use icons as well as keys on different pages rather than the HUD view. Perhaps one icon on the HUD window could jump to a 'home' page and then use icons there, or perhaps use icons only when docked?

I'm a bit of a stickler for classic Elite and regulary play Oolite in classic mode. IMO, I find keys quicker to use than a mouse. But if the interface works then what the hell. But try to minimise clutter. The bottom line with Oolite, and what I think Aegidian is trying to achieve, is flexibility, something for everyone, and if it ain't broke then it don't need fixing

Jaybee wrote:

tupe666 wrote:

Jaybee wrote:

Ugly icons, screen clutter, etc. I suppose it does suck IMO

But there will be those who think it's 'a good idea', so I won't go into a lengthy post by pro-conning it.

Oolite is fine as it is.

lol I just wrote clutter. They are UGLY, but I make no claim to be a graphics wizz, although it must be said they turned out better than I'd hoped. For a first shot 8 hours work.

What is clear to me now is 3 things that were not clear to me before.

1) The interface(not just the HUD), needs a lot of pretty to before it sees an improvement.

2) The press a key twice for subscreen when docked is not good, although as to an alternative, This approach is quite possibly worse.

3) Vector based/SVG is looking in my mind the way to go.

I don't think I could have done any better, but I don't like the idea of making it look like 'Frontier'. However, I can see what you are trying to achieve and perhaps Oolite could use icons as well as keys on different pages rather than the HUD view. Perhaps one icon on the HUD window could jump to a 'home' page and then use icons there, or perhaps use icons only when docked?

I'm a bit of a stickler for classic Elite and regulary play Oolite in classic mode. IMO, I find keys quicker to use than a mouse. But if the interface works then what the hell. But try to minimise clutter. The bottom line with Oolite, and what I think Aegidian is trying to achieve, is flexibility, something for everyone, and if it ain't broke then it don't need fixing

The Idea of a icons is not a "frontier" idea, it was in elite+. In fact its avilable to most games post 1995 when GUI's(with windows 95) hit mainstream. I don't know whether Icons are the way to go, but the interface(not the HUD) is reminisant of DOS/Unix Shell interface without bringing the power that those give.

The trouble with Icons when Docked, and I don't know the solution. Is that the current thought process in the design cannot be extended in this manner, The thought process is just crazy! You hit a function key twice to get to a second screen. I have played Oolite far too much, and I still push keys at random till I get the screen I want. I can't think of a better more useable interface to throw at this, I know full well that my proposal if extended to the current interface has the potential to make things a whole lot worse. I do think external Dialog boxes like that of the 'load commander' look Godawful, and know people are working on that. I really chickened out, by only looking at those options available in-flight.

The using keys vs Using mouse is a non-issuse, my suggestion was always an optional thing perhaps activated by the '?' key. There is a problem with clutter, but really how much of your 1600x1200 screen do you need to see . The obvious solution esp when custom Interfaces become more popular is for either :-

1) Skinnable interface
2) resizeable Information on current HUI(already a mini-hud).

I don't know what the bottom line is in oolite, but I suspect flexability isn't the bottom one. I hope Fun/Addictiveness/Playability/Longevity hell t-shirt sales embellished with "I'm Clean..." or "My other ships a Fer-de-lance".

I just think anything new should be thought through in an advantages vs disadvantages way. Is losing XX% of the screen during flight worth it for XXX feature. Like it would for any change.

Flexabilty is a useful thing but getting the defaults right for the mojority of users is important. If the user has to "fix" his interface then it is broken. The interface is broken IMO, but do I do not think the solution is either easy/fun and could easily end up worse, and doesn't sound as fun as a new ship/sound/misc add-on. Should it be a priority over X facilty I would personally say not if that facility offers better Fun/Addictiveness/Playability/Longevity than an improved UI.

I am surprised that being a stickler for Myth elite would affect this discussion, as the elements that made elite were Trading/Docking/Space Flight/Dogfights/Being Elite, and anything that impoves my experience in doing these things is a good thing. I still play doom, but nowerdays I play with 3D models, and use my mouse!!

tupe666 wrote:

There is a problem with clutter, but really how much of your 1600x1200 screen do you need to see .

Aah, now I start to understand! To whoever you're talking here apparently doesn't include me with my 15" monitor and a max. screen size of 1024x768. So don't expect me advocating your ideas.

Rubinstein wrote:

tupe666 wrote:

There is a problem with clutter, but really how much of your 1600x1200 screen do you need to see .

Aah, now I start to understand! To whoever you're talking here apparently doesn't include me with my 15" monitor and a max. screen size of 1024x768. So don't expect me advocating your ideas.

Quite the reverse. The screenshot is only 800x600, you are by definition a prime example you have 63% more screen space than the working example. Whether you advocate an idea or not, understand this idea has been implimented at 640x480. That is not even to say that icons could be smaller. I am quite willing to change my post from saying 1600x1200 to 640x480 as Myth Elite did not run at higher than 320x240(25% of 640x480). Of course, I'm sure that you do understand that Icons can be scaled or designed at a lower resolution to fit any defination of monitor see part on Vector Based/SVG. I really do not understand your post could you explain what you mean,

What an old-fashioned list of resolutions. Where's 1440x900?

I think 20 options would have been a tad over the top. but I don't think its particularly important after your above 640x480. Although I do think a ratio poll would really have been more useful although you can do 16:10 in CGA

I hope you are aware of heavily knocking on cosmetic details, while the game is still beta, are you? Your suggestions have a priority of "after everything else is done". IMHO of course...

Rubinstein wrote:

I hope you are aware of heavily knocking on cosmetic details, while the game is still beta, are you? Your suggestions have a priority of "after everything else is done". IMHO of course...

lol I think I agree, or have agreed, but I'm not talking about cosmetics, putting skins on ships is cosmetics . I'm purely talking about adding functionallity to a messed up interface, and yes I'd like it if it was pretty, but most of my posts concentrate on useability. I do not think it should have priority, I do think it should be thought about ealier, and implimented later, because its hard. I have only done a quick mockup, and already I am seeing flaws in what I have done, and *can't* think of anything better, If the only arguments against this were screen clutter(a misnomer IMO), and astestics(graphics can be improved upon), I'd have just done it, because I do think there is something to this, but adding a different front-end onto what is already broken is not it.