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Oolite's default ship prices...nuts?
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:31 pm
by Switeck
The most disjointed break occurs with the prices for the Python, Boa, and Boa 2.
While clearly the Boa is "between" the Python and Boa 2 in terms of performance, it probably should be a lot cheaper than the Boa 2 -- which is much better overall.
Like ~300-360k for the Boa 1.
Or make the Boa 2 closer to the Anaconda's price, due to the much higher speed and maneuverability...and because it can have Military Shields.
Fluff-wise, the Fer-de-Lance may be "awesome", but as far as performance goes it too is lackluster.
Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:01 pm
by Smivs
You're right, the prices are just as nuts as pretty much everything else!
We all know how bonkers the sizes are, and some of the specs are crazy too. Yes the FDL is too slow...it's supposed to be an executive transport, the Jaguar or Mercedes of the spaceways, yet it plods along like a Toyota Prius.
And you hint at another quirky aspect of the game, equipment. Why can't a Boa have Military shields when the Boa 2 can? Yet all ships can be retro-fitted with an escape pod when, to quote the Wiki, "Normally, it is fitted such that it completely encloses the flight deck of the ship on installation". In other words the ships more or less has to be dismantled to fit one.
Oolite is completely eccentric, but this is perversely a good thing because it wouldn't be the same great game if it wasn't.
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:50 am
by Switeck
I bring this issue up, which I know has been mentioned/discussed before, because more ships may be made player buy-able soon. The hyperspace-incapable ones. These prices will become even more silly if buying a Mamba costs more than a Cobra 3.
Did the Player ship prices used in Oolite come from an earlier version of Elite?
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:50 am
by Kaks
Since we're talking oxp ships - there are no plans of making player versions of escorts in the main ( vanilla ?
) game, and the boa2 does come with an oxp or two - it shouldn't really be a problem for the oxp makers to follow some generally accepted rule of thumb as far as the sale price is concerned. And yes, IMO the boa2 price price could probably do with some upward adjustment...
Incidentally, this is what got Lestradae started on OE: the prices for oxp ships were pretty consistent in there. I think he did write his pricing formula somewhere on the forum a couple of years back, not that I can find it at the moment!
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:11 pm
by CheeseRedux
From the Realistic Shipyards V3.02 Readme:
How-To calculate the Revised Ship Prices
----------------------------------------
The Basic Reference Ship is the
Cobra MkIII:
Extended Cargo Capacity: 35 tons
Speed: 0.35 LS
Energy Banks: 4
Missile Slots: 4
Possible Equipment: All
Manoeuvrability (Pitch/Roll): 1.5
Gun Mounts: All 4
Energy recharge rate: 4
Price without Equipment: 150.000 Cr
Cobra MkIII is taken as standard with a Standard Price of 150.000 Cr, and then
Extended Cargo Capacity: Price is raised/lowered 20%/10% per 20 additional/smaller Cargo Bay
Speed: Price is doubled (each time)/lowered 20% per 0.1 LS jump up/down
Energy Banks: Price is raised/lowered 20%/10% per additional/fewer Energy Bank
Missile Slots: Price is raised/lowered 20%/10% per additional/fewer Missile Slots
Possible Equipment: Price is taken down 10% per essential equipment piece not available
Manoeuvrability (Pitch/Roll): Price is raised/lowered 20% per 0.5 additional/lower Pitch/Roll
Gun Mounts: Price is lowered 10% per unavailable, 5% per reduced capacity Gun Mount
Energy recharge rate: Price is raised/lowered 20%/10% per 1 additional/lower Energy recharge rate
Any Price without Equipment is the result of 150.000 Cr multiplied by all multipliers!
For the record, though I like price & performance to be somewhat consistent (I'm trying to avoid the word "realistic" here), a strict adherence to any pricing formula can also get rather silly. For one thing, there will always be the brand names that people will pay extra to have; among the core ships we have the Fer-de-Lance, which performancewise is an overpriced piece of crap. If you want those furry dice and leather upholstery it's gonna cost you. There's also the theoretical possibility to design a ship that is crappy in all aspects but cargo capacity. The formula might spit out a really low cost, so low that it wouldn't even pay for the amount of metal needed to build the thing.
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:35 pm
by Darkbee
We should not forget that a Jaguar or Mercedes may be fast, but it's no Ferrari. I think perhaps the emphasis on the Fer-de-Lance is comfort. Having said that it was always implied that it's a bit of an iron-ass and I even fall into the trap of believing that myself sometimes.
I think CheeseRedux summed it up nicely, yes prices are a little whack, but if they were "realistic" (based on some formula) then American cars for example wouldn't be worth sshhhhhh.
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:54 pm
by CaptKev
Darkbee wrote:We should not forget that a Jaguar or Mercedes may be fast, but it's no Ferrari.
Then again a Ferrari is no Bugatti Veyron!
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:05 pm
by Darkbee
I personally want to
go green.
(although again, no Bugatti)
Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:19 pm
by CaptKev
Nice
, Electric cars have come a long way
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:25 pm
by NigelJK
Or this:
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1049 ... ive-photos
which sort of encompasses all of the above!
When the original XJR was announced it gave Ferrari a fright as it was quicker than all but their most expensive cars. Jag have previous on this as when the xk120, mk2, and e-types were annou8nced that same thing happened. The xk120 was the fastest production car for several years.
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:38 pm
by Smivs
NigelJK wrote:Or this:
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1049 ... ive-photos
which sort of encompasses all of the above!
When the original XJR was announced it gave Ferrari a fright as it was quicker than all but their most expensive cars. Jag have previous on this as when the xk120, mk2, and e-types were annou8nced that same thing happened. The xk120 was the fastest production car for several years.
Not to mention the awesome
XJ220. Yummy
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:48 pm
by DaddyHoggy
Sadly the XJ220 was not as awesome as it should have been....
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:54 pm
by Darkbee
DaddyHoggy wrote:Sadly the XJ220 was not as awesome as it should have been....
That's what they said about the "
Zap". No, seriously!
I actually know somebody that owns one of these bad boys.
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:57 pm
by Smivs
DaddyHoggy wrote:Sadly the XJ220 was not as awesome as it should have been....
I think it was, but got unlucky. It became a victim of the late '80s economic crash with speculators who'd put deposits down losing a load of money (poor souls), and this had a 'devaluing' effect on the car. Plus many afficionados didn't like the idea of a V6 in a super-car (the V12 was likely to fall foul of emission regulations) even though in turbo form it was more than powerful enough, and indeed was more powerful than the V12.
A great car killed by prejudice and economic meltdown. Sad.
Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:14 pm
by Zireael
Back on topic:
Realistic Shipyards had a good formula, but were a little bit too taxing on my system. Some ships were overpriced in the original (Anaconda, Boa!), some were ridiculously underpriced (Morrigan - from 800k to 4,8 m credits!)....
If only there was a way to make ship prices consistent without having to have RS...