Oolite Bulletins

What tactics do people use for dogfighting large groups of ships?

When I have encountered groups of 3 offenders, I tend to try and pick at least one off from distance (I'll go for the one that's hitting me with its laser) and then go for the next dangerous one.

However, when I encounter larger groups (especially with Random Hits) there's too many shooting at me and I tend to die before I can pick off one or two.

I've read this post which sounds like it's worth a try but I'd also be interested to hear what tactics the more experienced/successful of you use.

I'm more of a sniper than a dogfighter. I'll stop and begin by targeting them all. You'll need a multi-targeting system and a targeting memory expansion to do this. See what's there and what they are, then start picking them off one by one, starting with the most dangerous (Asps, Cobra Mk III's, FerDeLances). Then move on to the smaller weaker fighters (Mambas etc). Finally take out any capital ships (Pythons mostly).
I use front and rear lasers, swapping end-to-end as the lasers warm up.
A variation on this (if there are a lot of them or they all start approaching you) is to turn away from them and at an appropriate speed keep them all fairly distant, then pick them off one by one using the rear laser, perhaps occassionally turning back towards them to use the front laser if needed.
You will need to 'Get your eye in' and find the 'sweet spot', that precise point in the targeting crosshairs where you will hit even a small ship at a great distance. This takes practise.
Using these methods I have taken out quite large groups (7,8,9 ships) without taking a single hit.

Need to practice with the rear laser - I got frustrated quickly last time as I kept forgetting the controls were reversed!

I tend to combine the sniper and dogfighter tactics. When I see a group of offenders or fugitives approaching on radar, I slow down to a stop and start sniping away as many as possible. Typically, my hit ratio is better than theirs from a distance. If there are enemies with plasma cannons (e.g. a Griff Boa or rogue frigate) I take them out first, otherwise I concentrate on the ones who shoot first. While the distance is big enough I also use the rear laser if the front laser overheats.

Eventually I speed up towards them and engage them in one-on-one dogfights, getting behind them and roasting them to death. In case they have a rear laser (sometimes happens when on a random hits mission) I either try stay a little off to the side (they are typically not too good with their rear lasers) or try to side next to them so I can use the port/starboard laser.

This tactic isn't as good as Smivs' when it comes to taking hits myself, but flying an iron ass Cobra Mk 3 I don't mind too much plus I'm too impatient to just depend on sniping. If the going gets tough and one of my shields takes too much damage I turn away and use the rear laser, if both shields get low I quickly gain some distance on injectors, recover, and attack again.

maik wrote:

This tactic isn't as good as Smivs' when it comes to taking hits myself, but flying an iron ass Cobra Mk 3 I don't mind too much plus I'm too impatient to just depend on sniping. If the going gets tough and one of my shields takes too much damage I turn away and use the rear laser, if both shields get low I quickly gain some distance on injectors, recover, and attack again.

Maik is right about the Iron Ass...obviously the more punishment you can take, the better you're likely to fare, like the time I had two pirate bands attacking me simultaneously. I was much closer to one lot, so I ended up sniping the distant band while dogfighting the closer group. That was fun but I did take some serious hits as well, including two missile hits at different times during the battle. Eight energy banks and Naval/Military everything can be useful
Regarding rear lasers, practise will make perfect (you get used to everything being back-to front), but one technique a friend of mine favours is to turn the joystick round so it works the 'right' way.

Turn into em, hit the burners. Target one of em and fire a ECM Missile, he should run for it. One down. (Hell be back though) Fly through the pack and do a 180.

Target the biggest bugger (read most dangerous) and hit him with all you got knock him down. Hit the others in turn after that.

If they burn away, leave em, its a waste of fuel chances are they will regroup after a couple of mins and come back. Target those who will hang on into the fight or cant burn away.

If like me you can afford QCM's or EB's dont be afraid to use em.

If you lose a shield DONT hang on into the fight burn away. You start taking damage and costly repairs to equipment.

If you dont have an afterburner, dont get into a fight, you will die more times than win. I find the burner is the single most useful extra you will ever use.

Use 'short controlled bursts' like the guy from the film says. You over heat rapidly, its mega annoying having to wait for cooldown when you know you are in the perfect firing position.

A good manouver to throw off a persistant enemy is lots of roll with yaw thrown in. Up, down arrow with plenty of < or >.

For large groups, especially ones containing really dangerous buggers like Iguanas, Wolf IIs, Cats or other multi-gun horrors, my tactics are pretty much the same as Smivs'. Target the baddest, paste them as much as possible from a distance, then turn and retreat and blaze away with the rear laser. Apart from anything else it can stretch the pursuing pack out, as the faster ships pull away from the slower ones. The one difference is that – in the absence of any multi-laser opposition – I'll try to pick off light fighters such as Mambas and Sidewinders first on the grounds that they're quick to kill (I can usually account for two or three light fighters at long range without overheating the laser). In that sort of situation I'm looking to cut down the number of lasers pointed at me as quickly as possible.

I'll share some of my tactics, these are mostly anecdotal so you'll have to experiment for yourself. I don't really like the snipey way of doing it. I say get in among them. Fly like a madman, you will only improve with time.

1. If you're heading directly towards them then you present a still target to shoot. A small hit on them may cause them to turn and attack you, they will then present a still target to you. Keep moving at 90 degrees to them, until you are ready to kill.

2. Collapsing shields will cause a ship to break formation, use this to split large groups. I recommend Nelson's tactic of getting in among them, upsetting their formation. Attack the strongest first.

3. When you see the whites of there eyes... STOP. They will burn their engines trying to get a bead on you and all you have to do is turn and pick them off. If they start hitting you, create distance and change directions. (This is actually an AI bug, shhh, they don't know what to do if you're still when close). When close, it is advantageous to be travelling slower, when far away it is better to be travelling faster than your opponent.

4. When facing multiples, don't concentrate on the ones running away from you. Let them run and get the others who are still trying to shoot you.

5. If you're chasing them, it is better to be on an identical heading. This way they will be still on your screen. You can do this by getting very close, stopping, and then following them.

6. Know the shape of your ship, present the smallest profile to them while your guns are charging, only moving towards them when ready to fire.

7. Use your speed control like a weapon. Suddenly stopping can turn being chased to being the one who chases. Ramming small ships to death is also fun and I defy you not to shout "Ramming Speed Mr. Sulu", while you're doing it.

8. Know your enemy. If done correctly, you can cause a wolfpack of pirates to chase you until they are in range of Navy frigates or police squads. Then just wait for the cargo to pop out.

It'd be awesome to have a strafe control, where you can turn your ship without affecting the direction of movement. It'd be visually impressive too, I imagine.

Right, sounds like I need to go away and practice with my rear laser.

(Goes away to line up some coke cans on the back wall...)

I tend to use the range of the military laser to it's full advantage, and often resort to sniper tactics. Since NPCs run towards me in assault mode, I cut my speed to a crawl and pick them off as they come. I usually nail two or three that way before the laser overheats.

I'm not afraid to deploy missiles, either. My favorite ordinance is the military missile, with hardheads as a close second. But I may pack a nuclear torpedo or two as well; nukes have a special purpose. More on that later.

Iguanas, Cats, and Rattlers can be a pain in the neck. Iggys and Cats especially, they're often equipped with injectors, on top of those dual lasers. These fighters take priority when encountered, as they'll often attempt kamikaze runs when shot up enough.
Rattlers aren't as big a threat, despite having four lasers. They never have injectors, and usually their pilots are awful shots. A Rattler's laser mounts are vulnerable; shoot those off, and the guy is out of the fight, and may try to flee.

Bad News comes in a predatory package: The Dragon M. Of all the Dragon class, the M variant is the most dangerous. This brawler has only a single, forward laser, but usually a mil laser. But, it's well armored and can take some abuse. It comes with three plasma cannon mounts and a generous secondary payload. You're going to have to work to take this guy down, and watch out for those missiles! The best bet is to disable it's rear plasma gun; once that gun is out, the Dragon M becomes vulnerable to swarm-fired missiles or a nuke fired at close range.

Kirins, Griff Boas, rogue frigates and the like are perfect targets for a nuking. A nuke can severely damage if not outright kill these ships. They sport plasma flak guns...a lot of flak guns. That would make them torpedo-proof if you fired-and-forgot your nuke, but there's a way to deal with that.
The plasma guns are short range weapons, so stay at long range. These ships are big and slow, and easy laser targets. But tough; your laser will overheat before you wear them down, if you attacked with lasers alone. Let the nuke splash them, and fire some laser bursts to ensure they concentrate on you and forget all about the torpedo.

Kamikaze pilots, #1 pet peeve. A hardhead can scare these assholes off their run. A combat drone can also distract them. They'll run out of fuel eventually, and when they do their ass is grass and you have a weedeater. But until then, concentrate on not getting rammed.

Smivs wrote:

but one technique a friend of mine favours is to turn the joystick round so it works the 'right' way.

I imagine that looks funny if one is using the keyboard

By the way, pushing forward for diving - and backwards for climbing - has been the standard on fighter planes since joysticks were invented, AFAIK...

I like to make sure I have a bit of distance, and then cut speed to half or a quarter. Make them come to me, while I'm ambling along, sniping and using some rolls to make sure I remain a moving target. When we get close, afterburner and break downwards and to port or starboard. If front laser is good, come around hard for a shot before the opponent can bring it around. If it needs to cool (or they end up real close to being directly aft) use the aft laser.

I usually pick one opponent and dog after them, staying as close as I can. Their buddies may make a lot of shots but not so many hits since staying tight to one enemy and dogging after them is almost the same as random motion. I use the precision toggle for the joystick probably more than the injectors, to come around hard and then toggle down to get a bead after the opponent is somewhere near the crosshairs. Right after getting a good volley of shots off, use the injectors in a short burst with a hard break to get out of the crosshairs of any of them coming up behind you.

Usually I pick the weakest first, since they'll go down the quickest and then they aren't pot-shotting at you. However, if someone in the pack is being a particular pain in the rump, then they just volunteered.

I don't use my missiles as much as I should. They're good for distraction to divide the pack a bit even when they don't hit. I've used the E-bomb a total of twice. Once to see what it did, and once by accident when I was trying to switch back to forward view before I'd programmed the views to the hi-hat on the joystick. Haven't used a q-mine yet, I don't have one aboard. But hey, I've only been tussling with the occasional batch of pirates and the *very* occasional stray Thargoid so far. Maybe in some huge distant battle it'd be just the ticket.

Oh, the reason I usually break down and to port or starboard is because the AI ships seem to pull up *most* of the time, so it seems a good tactic for avoiding collision. If the fight isn't too busy, like you're working on the last couple opponents, it's a good time to break just a little downwards and use the aft view to give the front laser a break. From what I've seen so far, the AI rarely uses anything but front laser and sometimes missiles.

Probably pretty crude and basic tactics compared to some folks here, but they work for me most of the time so far.

Cmdr Wyvern wrote:

I tend to use the range of the military laser to it's full advantage

Good tactic to keep in mind when in a full blown Navy vs. Thargoids battle. Shoot them on sight just before they actually appear on your radar and they don't fight back.

Ganelon wrote:

I don't use my missiles as much as I should. They're good for distraction

Same here. When in serious trouble I use a hard head to distract the most obnoxious enemy. I only carry two though, my third pylon is always a Q Mine for extra-serious trouble and my fourth one is fitted with a salvage missile just to up the loot when there's opportunity.

Ganelon wrote:

the AI ships seem to pull up *most* of the time

Good observation, this makes it easy to go behind them: go on a collision course towards them, slow down before you crash, watch them pull up and then stick to their behind and finish them.

Well I had varying levels of success last night.

1) Stopping as soon as I see an enemy group

Surprisingly effective - had never considered not rushing in head first, laser blazing. Sat still and managed to pick off one of the group with a military laser before they got their range and I had to move.

2) Fuel injected through group (while using a bit of up, down, < and >)

This dispersed the group pretty nicely.

3) Aft laser (as front was still a bit hot after 1)

I suck at this. One hit before he was back in range and giving me a kicking. So I turned round and engaged head on and survived. Just.

4) Hardened missile

Going back through the dispersed group I found 2 ships who were pretty handy with their lasers (either that or I just present way too easy a target for them...). One missile distracted one of them (eventually destroying it) while I attempted to destroy the other.

5) One left.

So that left the target of my mission...

Found him. We exchanged laser blasts. He turned to flee, or so I thought... I moved in for the kill... and was promptly destroyed by his aft laser.

Still it was a vast improvement on before so thanks everyone for your advice.

Practice will be key to this!