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snorks in space! (noob w. old hardware, gamepad, questions)

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:18 am
by snork
damn, too long post. :| I bolded some for quick scan.
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hej, fellow pilots Image

First my Image to you Ooliters.
Works out of the box, stable, resizable window and whatnot all. Once again, open source software wins.
Makes me feel like an idiot not having found this way earlier than just this weekend. :oops:
Thank you, I have already been having lots of fun with it these last days.

However, I do have some questions or troubles I hope you can help me with - or clarify there is nothing that can be done, other than upgrading my PC
(due anyway, as soon as Westmere notebooks are available at reasonable pricing)


I am not a gamer, but still insist on playing with gamepad, just the flying and fighting that is.
To me it is much more immersive and thus FUN. And it works reasonably well.
And it keeps me from going insane over keyboard controls on a qwertz keyboard layout. :P

I am playing Oolite 1.73.4 on Winows XP (fairly few processes / services running) on an old DELL workstation :
a dual Pentium2, 1 GB RAM, Geforce2 GTS w. 64 MB RAM (no shader model nothing), ok P-ATA HD (5,400 rpm, should get defragmented, I know).
Game settings : 1280x960 in fullscreen, details = on, detailed planets = usually off. :cry:

Here are my help requests to you other pilots:
  • some things are slow.
    Turning off detailed Planets :cry: helped significantly, but still ...
    DeP off *:
    Load game - 13 sec.
    F7 - 4-5 sec.
    2xF8 (first time) - 10 sec.
    hyperspace - 9 sec. - from (3,2,1,)0s until the rings appear on screen.

    (with DeP=on the times passing are 23 / 10-11 / same 10 / 16-18 seconds.)

    Funny enough, detailed planets = on does not seem to slow down the game otherwise, in flight /combat I do not feel any slowdown. :thumbsup:

    Reduced detail on/off does not influence this, nor does reducing resolution from 1280x960 to 1024x768.

    I wonder might it help to play Oolite from RAMdisk ? Any experiences with that ? Any other ideas how to improve this ?
  • Because of the above : Is there any way to load a game without the default new game having to be loaded first ?
  • Sometimes (rare) game controls foul up - like I suddenly couldn't jettison cargo anymore (d key).
    Loading a game or restarting the game did fix this (I think), but is there a cure without reloading ? I mean me beeing a noob I just did particularly well in blasting up a serious pirate gang, this time even without in the process having zapped all the cargo pods.
    And then all the goods flying around and I can't pick them up because some food or minerals are stuck in the cargo bay.

    Or is it a feature ? During fight I hardly am able to read any messages about what went broke, lost or sth. .
  • gamepad issue :
    Sometimes an analogue stick axis won't do anything until I use the other analogue stick first.

    I don't know why, maybe it has to do with mixed gamepad-keyboard useage.
    Typically this would be yaw = 2nd analogue stick horizontal axis.
    I have to use first analogue stick first (roll/dive), for yaw via gamepad 2nd analogue stick being available again.

    Can I do something about it ? Need I avoid doing something ?
  • Music vs. SFX sound volume to me is disbalanced. (I am using Hawkesounds.oxp)

    If I set the volume so that the sounds won't annoy my neighbours, then the music is hardly noticeable.
    Any known fix for this ?

    Yes, really, when arriving on delivery point the other side of the galaxy, or my rank going up, then I do want the Danube Blue playing next (auto)docking. :lol:
  • Why did I receive ~34,000 credits on passenger delivery when the expected pay was 17,600 ?
    It was in a mixed passengers situation and does not happen that way on a reload.

    Was it because I was 5 days early, on a 33 days limit ?

    Or maybe because I originally had 2 passengers to Zaleriza, but the one (27 days limit) left me at Xeenla, just two jumps before Zaleriza, because of me failing to deliver in time.
    I went on to Zaleriza without dying/ reloading before arriving at Zaleriza station. And to my surprise got payed almost double as much as promised, almost as much as if I delivered both passengers in time.

    On reloads (last jump before Zaleriza) I get payed a bit more than what was agreed upon, but never near as much as that first time. Wondering :?
  • How can I re-read received messages ?
    As said, during fight I hardly have the nerves for this - What did who say when I destroyed my first Thargoid warship ? What got lost or broken from fight or bad docking ? And so on.


Last but seriously not least : Thank you, Flying_Circus Image for introducing the snork ship (oxp).
And as slick it is as one would expect from its name. yay!

So good, I don't mind the ugly typo in the name. :wink:
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* leaving the jokes about "turn DEP off" for someone else. ^^

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:59 am
by Svengali
Hello snork and welcome onboard .-) To answer some of your questions...
snork wrote:
some things are slow.<snip>
Libs have to be loaded, your system specs scanned, flags set, oxps parsed and merged/added and a lot of other stuff.
snork wrote:
Is there any way to load a game without the default new game having to be loaded first ?
Sure. Press 'Y' when starting Oolite (if you have stored a savedgame before).
snork wrote:
like I suddenly couldn't jettison cargo anymore (d key).
If you are on injectors or torusdrive it's disabled, nothing to be worried about .-)
snork wrote:
Music vs. SFX sound volume to me is disbalanced. (I am using Hawkesounds.oxp)
Edit the oxps ogg-vorbis files if you feel the need. It simple and there are a lot of editors out there (like Audacity).
snork wrote:
How can I re-read received messages?
Read the OoliteRS.pdf shipped wth Oolite. It tells you more about the used keys in Oolite, but it can differ based on your systems settings. On my machine the key is " ^ " to review the commsMessages (top screen area). For consoleMessages (directly above your HUD) there's no way to re-read them.

Hope this helps a little bit. Have fun .-)

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:09 am
by another_commander
Svengali wrote:
snork wrote:
Is there any way to load a game without the default new game having to be loaded first ?
Sure. Press 'Y' when starting Oolite (if you have stored a savedgame before).
On Win/Linux, you can also load a game by starting the game with the switch -load and the full path to the save file as parameter, as in the example below:

Code: Select all

<OoliteInstallDir>\oolite.app\oolite.exe -load D:\oolite\oolite.app\oolite-saves\ironass.oolite-save

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:21 am
by Commander McLane
BTW: On the Mac you can simply double-click on your save-file. :wink:

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:15 pm
by Cmdr Wyvern
another_commander wrote:
On Win/Linux, you can also load a game by starting the game with the switch -load and the full path to the save file as parameter, as in the example below:

Code: Select all

<OoliteInstallDir>\oolite.app\oolite.exe -load D:\oolite\oolite.app\oolite-saves\ironass.oolite-save
Well I'll be a Thargoid's uncle! I didn't know that.
Learn something new every day... :wink:

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:35 pm
by Thargoid
Uncle Iggie! :lol:

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:30 pm
by another_commander
snork: How many OXPs do you have installed? The PC you describe is really old technology, but I suspect that taking that much time to jump to new systems is probably due to the amount of OXPs rather than anything else. Are you running other processes/applications as well when running Oolite?

As for the passenger payment, there is a bonus for early delivery, but I am not sure if it ever gets to be double the original price. If you can find a reliable way to reproduce it, then maybe we can have a more thorough look at it.

Re: snorks in space! (noob w. old hardware, gamepad, questio

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:24 pm
by Eric Walch
snork wrote:
Why did I receive ~34,000 credits on passenger delivery when the expected pay was 17,600 ?
It was in a mixed passengers situation and does not happen that way on a reload.

Was it because I was 5 days early, on a 33 days limit ?
Because you were early, the code adds a random bonus to your fee. And this value can be higher when you arrive sooner. The chance for a double fee on very early arrival is still small. I think below the 10%, so you were lucky there.

Or more technical: in a loop for calculating early delivery bonus, it constantly adds 10% to your fee with a 25% chance of ending the loop at each cycle.

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:33 pm
by Cmd. Cheyd
Do you have the OXP "System Redux" by chance?

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:42 pm
by DaddyHoggy
Dual Pentium 2!!? :shock: :roll: And Oolite runs at all? I'm amazed!

We've just binned the last of our Dual (1GHz) Pentium 3s at work - although they were £5000 when bought and had been upgraded many times (utterly wasted 8x AGP 6800GTs in 2x AGP slots) - they just got to the point where they couldn't cut the latest of our modelling and sim tools (sadly (because the way the MOD works) they had to be scrapped rather than being given away to schools or charities)

Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:38 pm
by allikat
Runs? Limps more like...
I strongly suggest you limit your OXPs to the absolute minimum, no posh shader stations, neolite packs or anything else. UPS,missiles and bombs and PCC would be about all I'd bother having installed.

Adding a ramdisk on a 1GB machine will only make it worse. You'd swallow up your limited available memory with the ramdisk.

The pods jamming your scoop are a feature of one of the pods OXPs, if it's that annoying, you could happily remove that oxp without any trouble.

The gamepad issue is more likely down to either the pad itself, or the drivers which are running it. Check the manufacturer's website for any possible update drivers.

I've also had the keyboard controls fail to initialise once or twice (in way too many hours of play) the only way I found to fix was to save and restart.

F6 will show you what's broken, press once for equipment, and a second time for cargo.

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:20 am
by Diziet Sma
I'd also strongly suggest you use Game Booster to shut down everything non-essential on your machine when you play Oolite. See this thread.
allikat wrote:
F6 will show you what's broken, press once for equipment, and a second time for cargo.
Ummm.. don't you mean F5?

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:17 pm
by allikat
Um.. yes, I did mean F5... sorry...

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:28 pm
by snork
hej again.

Wow :shock: A lot of answers. Thank you all very much.
I started an answer post, but it gets too long and cramped. so I decided to break it into several posts, by subject. :?

First, the "simple" stuff :

audio volume
Svengali wrote:
Edit the oxps ogg-vorbis files if you feel the need. It simple and there are a lot of editors out there (like Audacity).
Ah, yes, that was my fallback plan. But to edit the music files, there's only 2 of them.
I never edited ogg audio files before, but I guess it's the same as with mp3 files - make it wav and after editing reencode.
Well, OK, I guess I'll do that and host them somewhere in case someone else feels about this as I do.

passenger fee
Eric Walch wrote:
Because you were early, the code adds a random bonus to your fee. And this value can be higher when you arrive sooner. The chance for a double fee on very early arrival is still small. I think below the 10%, so you were lucky there.

Or more technical: in a loop for calculating early delivery bonus, it constantly adds 10% to your fee with a 25% chance of ending the loop at each cycle.
another_commander wrote:
As for the passenger payment, there is a bonus for early delivery, but I am not sure if it ever gets to be double the original price. If you can find a reliable way to reproduce it, then maybe we can have a more thorough look at it.
Ah, good to know. So it's not really worth going for the tightly timed contract offers with nominally higher fees. :Aha!:
(unless for some extra challenge)

I kept some savegames around that situation, so I might try some more.

I am currently in the situation, that I have my Cobra3 perfectly equipped, but for a ship upgrade I am 350 to 500 K short. So when this feel of "no progress" gets too strong, I can for a change look into this some more.
(Or buy a Python and see what it's like to fly one of those ^^)

cargo jettison disabled
allikat wrote:
The pods jamming your scoop are a feature of one of the pods OXPs, if it's that annoying, you could happily remove that oxp without any trouble
Ah, OK. And no, I actually like the idea. :thumbup:

gamepad issue
allikat wrote:
The gamepad issue is more likely down to either the pad itself, or the drivers which are running it. Check the manufacturer's website for any possible update drivers.
Ah, okay, then I will have to live with it. Seeing it does not happen that often and I have already grown "used to it", too. No more panicking. :D

I do not dare touch anything gamepad-driver or configuration related.
I am usually very happy with it. You won't believe what a long story it was to find a suitable gamepad. Over three weeks, I returned 5 (five!) gamepads and finally the sixth one was to my liking.
AND compatible with Tomb Raider 5.

-----------------------------------
phew, coffee break.

Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:54 pm
by snork
"lame ass computer"
DaddyHoggy wrote:
Dual Pentium 2!!? :shock: :roll: And Oolite runs at all? I'm amazed!
:D Well, it's a pimped up good Pentium 2 PC. rock stable.

Actually It can do a surprisingly lot of stuff and it could do even more would I insert a better graphics card. Or P3 processors supporting SSE.
allikat wrote:
Runs? Limps more like...
Actually, no, the flying and combat is fine. Really.
No noticeable lag at all. And that is where it counts, imo.

Though I wonder if those small delays may lead me to a slightly different gaming style that needs less F7 and/or hyperjumping :
- stay longer in each system, do more combat, mining and so on.
- stay longer in a favourable group of systems, me knowing what is where
- stay longer in each galaxy - me knowing where to get high TL-repairs and such.
another_commander wrote:
snork: How many OXPs do you have installed? The PC you describe is really old technology, but I suspect that taking that much time to jump to new systems is probably due to the amount of OXPs rather than anything else. Are you running other processes/applications as well when running Oolite?
my oxps are few :
- yah with all sets
- pods
- cargo_wrecks_teaser
- Asteroid Storm
- Hyperradio + 2 musicpacks (unused, too expensive for now, 12,000 credits :shock: )
- Hawksound
- snark (just 1 NPC ship added, good aiming exercise those are)

Suits me well, to have few oxps installed. I want to learn vanilla Oolite first. When I buy a new notebook - late spring 2010 I guess - then I shall go for the fancy stuff.

Runnning processes are few, too. On installation (back then, ~6 years ago) I disabled the very most windows XP "services" and stuff.

Programs running are just
emule (well configured, ~55 megs RAM used),
java (without horrible jusched.exe) + tvbrowser - those go asleep nicely when not in use. The last 2 days I shut these two down when I played Oolite, though it doesn't seem to make a difference.
Then Opera with about 5 tabs of Oolite Wiki open :D and
sometimes Acrobat Reader with the Oolite RS.pdf opened.

No : software firewall, AV, toolbars, desktop themes, update-services, nothing.

That is also why I won't use
Diziet Sma wrote:
Game Booster to shut down everything non-essential on your machine when you play Oolite.
but thank you for the suggestion.
I bet it is really useful for the very most users. But to me it would be just another program installed / process running.
allikat wrote:
Adding a ramdisk on a 1GB machine will only make it worse. You'd swallow up your limited available memory with the ramdisk.
Ah, OK. So I do not have to bother remembering where I put that RAMdisk driver and how to configure it and all. Native XP ramdisk is way too limited.

For fun - this is Oolite running in the background, since an hour or so.
Swap btw. is on its dedicated partition only.
Image

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keyboard controls
Svengali wrote:
Read the OoliteRS.pdf shipped wth Oolite. It tells you more about the used keys in Oolite, but it can differ based on your systems settings. On my machine the key is " ^ " to review the commsMessages (top screen area). For consoleMessages (directly above your HUD) there's no way to re-read them.

Hope this helps a little bit. Have fun .-)
Aw, pity.
And for the keys, I don't know what it is, but the qwerty / qwertz keyboard layout situation always confuses me a LOT more than one would expect it to. :?

For now, I ended up sticking a paper on the top of my monitor with the Oolite controls as on QWERTZ written out.
And I just added Shift+6 (your ^, my &) - re-read messages. 8)
And for now I do not dare customise Oolite control keys, because then I would be incongruent with the Oolite documentation. Sounds like a sure bet to end up even more confused.

Maybe later on, I might do that (and get rid of all these Shift+ :D )