Licensing OXPs

Discussion and information relevant to creating special missions, new ships, skins etc.

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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by Reval »

It would be an understatement to say that I am somewhat confused by all this.

Suppose I place the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 in manifest.plist, upload it to the Oolite OXZ Manager, but then maybe at some later time, decide also to upload the OXP to the Oolite Wiki (which is GPL, right?)... What happens? Aren't the two different licenses - the one in manifest.plist and the one governing the Wiki - in some sort of conflict?
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by hiran »

Another thing is that declaring a license in the manifest seems optional. Yet a missing license starts huge discussions and uncertainty afterwards.
How about making the license field in the OXP manifest mandatory?
http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Manife ... ional_keys
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by Cholmondely »

I would like to add to the backgrounds available in HDBG.

Following links in the thread there, I came across links to just the one site which sorts its art by the license version: opengameart.org

There are 10 varieties of license available:
CC-BY 4.0
CC-BY 3.0
CC-BY-SA 4.0
CC-BY-SA 3.0
GPL 3.0
GPL 2.0
OGA-BY 3.0
CC0
LGPL 3.0
LGPL 2.1

Can I use any of these for HDBG?
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by Cmdr James »

ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original.
So depending whether you are "building upon" which it sounds like you are, then you must use the following, because its what the rest of HDBG is licesed as: Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike License version 4.0

Note that not all CC licenses have this clause, but this one does.
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by Cholmondely »

Cmdr James wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:43 pm
ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original.
So depending whether you are "building upon" which it sounds like you are, then you must use the following, because its what the rest of HDBG is licesed as: Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike License version 4.0

Note that not all CC licenses have this clause, but this one does.
Thank you. At least you seem to understand this quagmire!
What if I were to produce a "HDBG B" .oxp licensed as the v. 3.0 of that (to try and make life a little easier)?
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by Cmdr James »

Cholmondely wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:58 pm
Thank you. At least you seem to understand this quagmire!
What if I were to produce a "HDBG B" .oxp licensed as the v. 3.0 of that (to try and make life a little easier)?
Im not 100% sure what you are trying to achieve. Can you not simply create your OXP (or version of OXP) and license it as by-nc-sa which is what the original is? That seems simple, respects the initial authors wishes, and allows other people to use what you have created. Anything else is legally complex (though I doubt Norby is likely to show up with lawyers) and is unlikely to have any real effect except making the life of whoever comes along next even more confusing because they now have 2 different licenses to reconcile.

v3 and v4 of by-nc-sa are very similar you can see the main differences here https://creativecommons.org/Version4 so honestly I dont understand why you wuold want to use the out of date version 3 license?
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by Cholmondely »

Cmdr James wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:25 pm
Cholmondely wrote: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:58 pm
Thank you. At least you seem to understand this quagmire!
What if I were to produce a "HDBG B" .oxp licensed as the v. 3.0 of that (to try and make life a little easier)?
Im not 100% sure what you are trying to achieve. Can you not simply create your OXP (or version of OXP) and license it as by-nc-sa which is what the original is? That seems simple, respects the initial authors wishes, and allows other people to use what you have created. Anything else is legally complex (though I doubt Norby is likely to show up with lawyers) and is unlikely to have any real effect except making the life of whoever comes along next even more confusing because they now have 2 different licenses to reconcile.

v3 and v4 of by-nc-sa are very similar you can see the main differences here https://creativecommons.org/Version4 so honestly I dont understand why you wuold want to use the out of date version 3 license?
Is it really out of date? I'm not too sure what that really means. That it no longer applies?

What I understand is that the graphics which Norby persuaded the authors to let him use came with that 3.0 license. Not the 4.0 license. I don't have e-mail to bug them myself - and I'm not Norby myself either, who contacted them originally and established a relationship with them. I presume that I can finish off his work and that that will not upset the authors, some of whom may have withdrawn their work from public license subsequently. If they granted Norby 3.0, I'm not going to argue with them.

Am I wrong?
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by Cmdr James »

Im not certain, but in the OXP itself:
License:

This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike License version 4.0.
If you are re-using any piece of this OXP, please let me know by sending an e-mail to [email protected].

and on the wiki http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/HDBG
CC BY-NC-SA 4
Cholmondely wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:41 pm
Is it really out of date? I'm not too sure what that really means. That it no longer applies?
It means the the legal bigbrains that wrote it thought it should be improved and updated and according to them version 4 fixes some ambiguities that could cause the rights intended by version 3.0 to not be guaranteed. But Im not a lawyer so in theory I guess you need a copyright lawyer to consult on the subject. Personally I wouldnt worry and just assume ots ok.
Cholmondely wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:41 pm
some of whom may have withdrawn their work from public license subsequently.
Again, Im not a lawyer but as I understand it once you give a license you cannot simply revoke it.
Cholmondely wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:41 pm
Am I wrong?
As I understand it you never know until someone takes it to court and it gets proven for sure :p

On this thread he seems to have emailed the authors and explicitly said he will use verison 4 https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17492 and they agreed though most of the images were initially licensed as 2.0
Norby wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:04 pm
We got another permission:
Re: I would like to use your images
from SeanMcKinney http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/
to Norbylite http://norbylite.deviantart.com/
No problem, since it is an open source project I give you permission to use the images.

----------
Norbylite said the following:

Dear Sean McKinney,

I would like to ask your permission of using your beautiful images as backgrounds in upcoming free addons of an open source Elite-like space simulation game named to Oolite at http://oolite.org/.

I and some other hobby programmer in this forum: https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17492 making addons under http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/, so if you allow to use your images then you will get a note in the readme of addons regarding you are the author of the used images.

I especially like these:
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -413945482
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -506830972
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -333496330
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -314109170
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -279852592
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -340413667
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -282428521
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -270755310
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -251572683


Bottom line: the OXP you are extending is CC BY-NC-SA 4, stop making this more complex than it needs to be and do the same. Noone complained in the past 5 or so years that the version license he used isnt exactly correct, so whether it is or not noone is likely to sue you for a well intentioned reuse of said licensing.
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by phkb »

In short, as the HHGTTG says: “Don’t panic!”
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by Cholmondely »

Cmdr James wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:15 am
Im not certain, but in the OXP itself:
License:

This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike License version 4.0.
If you are re-using any piece of this OXP, please let me know by sending an e-mail to [email protected].

and on the wiki http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/HDBG
CC BY-NC-SA 4
Cholmondely wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:41 pm
Is it really out of date? I'm not too sure what that really means. That it no longer applies?
It means the the legal bigbrains that wrote it thought it should be improved and updated and according to them version 4 fixes some ambiguities that could cause the rights intended by version 3.0 to not be guaranteed. But Im not a lawyer so in theory I guess you need a copyright lawyer to consult on the subject. Personally I wouldnt worry and just assume ots ok.
Cholmondely wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:41 pm
some of whom may have withdrawn their work from public license subsequently.
Again, Im not a lawyer but as I understand it once you give a license you cannot simply revoke it.
Cholmondely wrote: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:41 pm
Am I wrong?
As I understand it you never know until someone takes it to court and it gets proven for sure :p

On this thread he seems to have emailed the authors and explicitly said he will use verison 4 https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17492 and they agreed though most of the images were initially licensed as 2.0
Norby wrote: Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:04 pm
We got another permission:
Re: I would like to use your images
from SeanMcKinney http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/
to Norbylite http://norbylite.deviantart.com/
No problem, since it is an open source project I give you permission to use the images.

----------
Norbylite said the following:

Dear Sean McKinney,

I would like to ask your permission of using your beautiful images as backgrounds in upcoming free addons of an open source Elite-like space simulation game named to Oolite at http://oolite.org/.

I and some other hobby programmer in this forum: https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=17492 making addons under http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/, so if you allow to use your images then you will get a note in the readme of addons regarding you are the author of the used images.

I especially like these:
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -413945482
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -506830972
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -333496330
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -314109170
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -279852592
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -340413667
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -282428521
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -270755310
http://seanmckinney.deviantart.com/art/ ... -251572683


Bottom line: the OXP you are extending is CC BY-NC-SA 4, stop making this more complex than it needs to be and do the same. Noone complained in the past 5 or so years that the version license he used isnt exactly correct, so whether it is or not noone is likely to sue you for a well intentioned reuse of said licensing.
Fair enough. Will do.

Question: I presume from your flag rank that you are one of the chaps who actually understands programming!

On the Mac, images often do not show up. I don't get the MFD images from Cim's Ship's Library. Nor the GUI(?) images from Spara's SothisTC override or the loyalist flag from Phkb's rework of Long Way Round (the last screen on arrival at Qubeen). So I thought I'd try out Docking Fees - and I've now had superb images whenever I dock and get stung for the privilege!

So I open up Docking Fees to poke around the entrails to see how the grammar differs... and nothing! Can't see anything about images anywhere! And when I look at the HDBG wiki page there is a load of impenetrable usage jargon!

Can you possibly tell me either what the AppleMac friendly syntax actually is (I can try it out on SothisTC) ... or direct me to some other image-laden OXPs which may work on the Mac and I can then unpick?

Cholmondeley

Appendices:
Long Way Round syntax:

Code: Select all

 // show mission screen
            mission.runScreen(
                {
                    screenID: "longwayround",
                    title: "Incoming Message",
                    background: "loyalistflag.png",
                    exitScreen: "GUI_SCREEN_STATUS",
                    messageKey: "long_way_round_Qubeen_briefing"
                } 
            );
SothisTC syntax: (I think it is this bit of the code)

Code: Select all

this.missionScreenOpportunity= function() {
	if (!this.$showWelcome) return;
	var messText = expandDescription("[STC_welcome]");
	if (this.$new_cargoes)
		messText = messText + expandDescription("[STC_new_cargoes]");	
	var tcbgpic = "OOmap_G"+(galaxyNumber+1)+".png";
	mission.runScreen({
		title: "Sothis Trade Center",
		message: messText,
		background: tcbgpic
	});
	this.$showWelcome = false;
}
Ship's Library syntax:

Code: Select all

this._registerIngameManual = function() {
	var contents = [
		{level: 0, key: "ingame-manual-frontpage", params:[this._getTip], opts:{model:"["+player.ship.dataKey+"]", spinModel:false}},
		{level: 0, key: "ingame-manual-welcome"},
		{level: 0, key: "ingame-manual-controls"},
		{level: 1, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems"},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-status", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f5.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-manifest", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f5f5.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-src", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f6.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-lrc", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f6f6.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-planet", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f7.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-commodity",params:[function(){return player.ship.cargoSpaceCapacity;}], backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f8.png",""]},
		{level: 1, key: "ingame-manual-station-systems"},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-station-systems-launch", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f1.png"]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-station-systems-equipment", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f3.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-station-systems-shipyard", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f3f3.png",""]},
Last edited by Cholmondely on Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by montana05 »

Cmdr James wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:15 am
Again, Im not a lawyer but as I understand it once you give a license you cannot simply revoke it.
I had an issue like that in RL in the past and the final conclusion is simple, except in some "exotic" countries a license can't be revoked if not defined temporarily at the beginning.

At Oolite I did use several parts of Norby's OXP's, and he never had a problem, so I wouldn't overthink it. To quote phkb, don't panic. :wink:
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by Cmdr James »

Cholmondely wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:34 am
Appendices:
Long Way Round syntax:

Code: Select all

 // show mission screen
            mission.runScreen(
                {
                    screenID: "longwayround",
                    title: "Incoming Message",
                    background: "loyalistflag.png",
                    exitScreen: "GUI_SCREEN_STATUS",
                    messageKey: "long_way_round_Qubeen_briefing"
                } 
            );
Cholmondely wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:34 am
SothisTC syntax: (I think it is this bit of the code)

Code: Select all

this.missionScreenOpportunity= function() {
	if (!this.$showWelcome) return;
	var messText = expandDescription("[STC_welcome]");
	if (this.$new_cargoes)
		messText = messText + expandDescription("[STC_new_cargoes]");	
	var tcbgpic = "OOmap_G"+(galaxyNumber+1)+".png";
	mission.runScreen({
		title: "Sothis Trade Center",
		message: messText,
		background: tcbgpic
	});
	this.$showWelcome = false;
}
Cholmondely wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:34 am
Ship's Library syntax:

Code: Select all

this._registerIngameManual = function() {
	var contents = [
		{level: 0, key: "ingame-manual-frontpage", params:[this._getTip], opts:{model:"["+player.ship.dataKey+"]", spinModel:false}},
		{level: 0, key: "ingame-manual-welcome"},
		{level: 0, key: "ingame-manual-controls"},
		{level: 1, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems"},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-status", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f5.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-manifest", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f5f5.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-src", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f6.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-lrc", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f6f6.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-planet", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f7.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-commodity",params:[function(){return player.ship.cargoSpaceCapacity;}], backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f8.png",""]},
		{level: 1, key: "ingame-manual-station-systems"},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-station-systems-launch", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f1.png"]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-station-systems-equipment", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f3.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-station-systems-shipyard", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f3f3.png",""]},
So, we have two different things, a mission screen where you pass a json object to mission.runScreen() and something that sets up an array of similar json objects for the library.

I dont see how those are at all connected to Docking fees.

From a syntax perspective they all seem fine to me. Its possible that screenid is mandatory (I dont think so) or that galaxyNumber isnt set to anything meaningful. Id have to spend quite a bit of time looking into oolite to find where the problem might be, but my gut feeling is that it isnt the oxp, maybe some messed up cache or something. If you remove docking fees, do the images dissapear again?
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by Cholmondely »

Cmdr James wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:15 am
Cholmondely wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:34 am
Appendices:
Long Way Round syntax:

Code: Select all

 // show mission screen
            mission.runScreen(
                {
                    screenID: "longwayround",
                    title: "Incoming Message",
                    background: "loyalistflag.png",
                    exitScreen: "GUI_SCREEN_STATUS",
                    messageKey: "long_way_round_Qubeen_briefing"
                } 
            );
Cholmondely wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:34 am
SothisTC syntax: (I think it is this bit of the code)

Code: Select all

this.missionScreenOpportunity= function() {
	if (!this.$showWelcome) return;
	var messText = expandDescription("[STC_welcome]");
	if (this.$new_cargoes)
		messText = messText + expandDescription("[STC_new_cargoes]");	
	var tcbgpic = "OOmap_G"+(galaxyNumber+1)+".png";
	mission.runScreen({
		title: "Sothis Trade Center",
		message: messText,
		background: tcbgpic
	});
	this.$showWelcome = false;
}
Cholmondely wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:34 am
Ship's Library syntax:

Code: Select all

this._registerIngameManual = function() {
	var contents = [
		{level: 0, key: "ingame-manual-frontpage", params:[this._getTip], opts:{model:"["+player.ship.dataKey+"]", spinModel:false}},
		{level: 0, key: "ingame-manual-welcome"},
		{level: 0, key: "ingame-manual-controls"},
		{level: 1, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems"},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-status", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f5.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-manifest", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f5f5.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-src", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f6.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-lrc", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f6f6.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-planet", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f7.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-ship-systems-commodity",params:[function(){return player.ship.cargoSpaceCapacity;}], backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f8.png",""]},
		{level: 1, key: "ingame-manual-station-systems"},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-station-systems-launch", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f1.png"]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-station-systems-equipment", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f3.png",""]},
		{level: 2, key: "ingame-manual-station-systems-shipyard", backgrounds: ["ingame-manual-f3f3.png",""]},
So, we have two different things, a mission screen where you pass a json object to mission.runScreen() and something that sets up an array of similar json objects for the library.

I dont see how those are at all connected to Docking fees.

From a syntax perspective they all seem fine to me. Its possible that screenid is mandatory (I dont think so) or that galaxyNumber isnt set to anything meaningful. Id have to spend quite a bit of time looking into oolite to find where the problem might be, but my gut feeling is that it isnt the oxp, maybe some messed up cache or something. If you remove docking fees, do the images dissapear again?
Apologies, I was not clear enough. With any of the 3 above, I get no images on my AppleMac screen.

So I thought I should check for other OXPs which had images, and, lo and behold, Docking Fee's images worked on my Mac. But when I dissected Docking Fees I could find nothing obvious that put them on the screen of my Mac. So once again, I find myself in the coding quagmire, whose level is now over my head!
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by phkb »

Cholmondely wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:05 pm
But when I dissected Docking Fees I could find nothing obvious that put them on the screen of my Mac
Wait... are we talking the "Docking Fees", originally by Layne? The one described here: Docking fees revisited. Because it doesn't have any images in it at all.

If you're getting images when you dock, that's Norby's HDBG OXP, I believe. [Edit] And the main difference between HDBG and those other OXP's is that HDBG is using the setScreenBackground function, not a runScreen function, in order to display the background. I don't know if that brings us any closer to a solution, but it at least highlights the difference.
Last edited by phkb on Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cmdr James
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Re: Licensing OXPs

Post by Cmdr James »

Cholmondely wrote: Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:05 pm
Docking Fee's images worked on my Mac. But when I dissected Docking Fees I could find nothing obvious that put them on the screen of my Mac. So once again, I find myself in the coding quagmire, whose level is now over my head!
Which docking fees are we talking about? Layne's Docking Fees Version 1.6 ? (though oddly verion 1.6 does say internally that its 1.7!)

That neither contains any images nor does it make any effort to use other images. All it does (like, literally everything it does) is calculate a cost based on the tech level, try to deduct the fee and add a message to the dock screen.

The handling of everything it does seems to be in PlayerEntityContracts.m in method setGuiToDockingReportScreen which you can have a look at, but I cannot see any possible way the docking fees oxp )assuming we are talking about the same thing) can have any impact.
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