Oolite Bulletins

For all you developers who know how to generate and tweak these things:

I am puzzled by the vast majority of ship designs. As an architect by trade (form follows function) why are most ship designs essentially for ships which need to land on planets? (i.e. they look like aircraft / shuttle derivatives). In reality a totally space based craft would be most unlikely to look like that, given the likelihood of some form on ion / plasma drive a long tubular body with nozzles one end and a gravity generating donut for accommodation connected by angled lattice to counteract phenominal thrust is more logical, with cargo all externally latched on which would explain why it gets destroyed by light strikes. I have often wondered, for example, where are these 'extra cargo bays' you buy in the external views?

Add to that the opportunity for some geaky laser / missile additions on the outside for the developers to have fun setting up, again explainable as you arm up.

Possible explanations? I presume the original Elite model is the generator for much of the developed stock, also there is some limitation on the ability to make something too complex which can operate, rotate etc?

Strangely enough, for me, the L crate transporter is the most honest functional ship in terms of its job. a highly explainable barge! I HATE the Boa Cruiser's long nose (extruded?) - it would perform well diving in a glue pot, not space and it obsures much of the screen in a close scrap. Reminds me of Concorde, but not very functional. Alternative could be a mod with the pilot cabin upfront (Lancaster bombers front turret?) - he could see!

Not to take away from the fantastic jobs you guys do making us great new ships, including Shreddies boxes (yet to find it!)

Lysander

Lysander wrote:

why are most ship designs essentially for ships which need to land on planets?

At least that could now be answered "because they can land on planets" With Thargoids planetfall oxp it's now possible to equip the ships for planetary landings.

Screet

According to canon Elite (at least the C64 version), the cargo bay expansion was performed by installing advanced sub-space compressors inside the hull. Thus it was entirely internal.

Also I believe that ship-shapes had to be streamlined due to an 'ether' which the ships fly through - this also explains the 'aircraft' flight of the spacecraft rather than 'real universe' newtonian flight.

(The 'real' explanation of course was the low capabilities of the original machines on which Elite was run. Having a completely convex model made the 3d hidden line (and later on, hidden surface) removal significantly easier).

Of course the Ooniverse is a different kettle of fish again, which explains why so many people have their own take on how it should function.

Personally I like sticking closer to the Elite ideals than trying to move closer to 'real universe' for most things. Even if it's not 'realistic' it's reasonably internally consistent - which for me is a main criteria for immersion. I also prefer the idea of internal missile mountings, similar to torpedoes on subs - the explanation again being that anything sticking out produces extra drag on the ether. However, that's just my personal preferences, and I know I'm probably in the minority with these - most people want more 'realistic' models, if such a thing makes sense in a completely fantasy Ooniverse such as this

Whatever the Comoonity decides, I hope that the 'stock' Oolite will always maintain a single consistent presentation, whatever that ends up being. The other most important aspect IMHO of course being that it should always make decisions weighted towards maximising the fun factor of the game rather than the reality factor.

Interesting Screet - I will try Thargoid's planetfall and see what you can do there - thargoid's goodies always add value.

For Micha, yes I see your point of view and understand that the mechanics of Elite were probably the reason for this. I too, like the fun bits, but given the huge range of possibilities. I don't see quite why this should prevent both approaches being followed up. The 'ether' argument is questionnable, however given the facts of life! You could argue that space station design is a more realistic restriction, any serious spaceship with a grav ring would be unlikely to get into the docking station (there or at con stations, space bars, hermits caves etc. Perhaps a mini transport would be needed (not unlike the Smart cars in those huge motorhome boots)

If we're going to talk facts of life, then real spacecraft have external docking ports with which they attach to each other directly. There's no requirement ever to land a spacecraft inside an internal docking bay of another spacecraft - what a HUGE waste of resources building an enclosed chamber in space for a vacuum-capable vehicle...

Streamlined ships aren't totally ridiculous in the Oolite universe. Even with real-world physics, space – particularly inside a solar system – isn't empty, when you're moving at significant percentages of the speed of light. Also, a streamlined profile allows ships to attack other ships, whilst presenting the smallest possible target to the enemy.

We've talked about this a bit before and it's true there's not always a good argument for having streamlined designs for purely space-based ships. I remember a quote from some old-school aircraft designer who said 'if it looks fast, it is fast', and so I've tended to follow that principle when it comes to high-performance ships.

Having said that, it's good to have a mix of high and low tech vessels and the Ooniverse always needs its share of functional cargo haulers or scientific research ships. Using subentities you can add all sorts of rotating bits and pieces to a basic model. If you have an idea why not post a sketch and people can try to make a prototype out of it.

Lysander wrote:

For all you developers who know how to generate and tweak these things:

As a developer, making excuses for Elite’s oddities is not my department. :-)

Ahruman wrote:

Lysander wrote:

For all you developers who know how to generate and tweak these things:

As a developer, making excuses for Elite’s oddities is not my department.

That's true, yours is for making excuses for Oolite's oddities

According to one interview of Bell & Barben I read, everything was developed from the Cobra 3.

They designed that first as the most complex model in the game, with the most lines to be removed when rendering. After that each basic shape was inspired by it's role. Ships with a squarer cross-section are freighters, i.e. the Anaconda and the Shuttle. Rectangle cross-section ships are fighters, i.e. the Gecko and Fer-de-Lance. Based on how complex the model was, extra detail was added to provide a texture, the 'window' of the Mamba or the wing lasers of the Krait.

As mention before, the 'conical' model was used to reduced the processing load. More complex designs turned up in the Tube and Elite II versions which have more interesting shapes like the back to front looking Gnat. Some of these models have turned up in Oolite already such as the Cat and Drake. (This website has renderings and vrml models of the Elite 2 & A ships you can download.)

Personally I think that the 'oddity' of the ship design is actually a blessing. It gives it a industrial/minimalist look, in comparison to the multitude of aeroplane shaped ships that most other games carry. (The RTS Homeworld being a notable exception.) IMHO I think some of the OXP ship designs are a bit too fiddly. I could just see myself having to do a day long EVA to bush out the dust from every crevices and sensor port after a few mining sessions.

P.S. of course we all know it's call a Cobra because it looks like the head of the said snake with it's hoods flaring. That name resulted in all the other original ships being given reptile names.