Oolite Bulletins

Oolite has better and better 3D graphics each time.

I wonder why only the 3D graphics are being improved, but not the UI.

I think the next version could have a better, more beautiful GUI (graphical user interface).

If the Oolite developers have higher priorities than spending time to make a more graphically beautiful GUI, wouldnt it be possible to allow the GUI to be altered by users, just like other mods??


I was seeing the other day DeepSpace´s Elite game (he stoped development in the middle). He had created a GREAT LOOKING GUI, and I think Oolite would also greatly benefit from the possibility of a better looking GUI. Maybe with the option for the ugly looking original, for the nostalgics

I took the liberty of linking some images from Deepspace here (DeepSpace, if you are against it, tell me and I will delete the links)

Its just very cool, and while I am not telling to make Oolite the same, I am just showing the possibilities, specially if users could change the UI themselves. DeepSpace himself would probably translate his Deepspace game UI to Oolite, while who knows, maybe some other people could do even better...














what do you guys think about it?

I agree that the User Interface does need an overhaul, however I don't think that we have to go as far as DeepSpace's version.

The biggest issue is that when you start going to very high end interfaces it increases the complexity of the construction and maintenance process. It obvious that they were designed for a 1000x700 pixel size screen and just wouldn't scale back to the lower resolutions that many of us use. You would have to either create separate versions for each resolutions for each OS's or just abandon a section of the systems that currently support the game. Both cases are just not fair to the development team or the fans.

There is a lot to be said for a simpler UI. If you want a prime example of the high-end UI getting in the way of the game, look no further than X3. The game may look cool, but it's a pig to use at times.

There already been posts & threads discussing the possible overhaul of the interface in a future release. The current system works well and very keyboard friendly, all it really needs is just some fine tuning. (Like right aligning the ship prices in the shipyard, and having scrolling lists instead of paging through stuff.)

Of course this is just my opinion which just one of many and I am sure many more learned than I will have they say.

aceshigh wrote:

what do you guys think about it?

If you wan't to play another game with fancy graphics or offer your UI as an OXP, go right ahead.

I'm playing Oolite because it is the closest version of Elite available.
I like the original UI for nostalgic reasons.

I can imagine enough details to let the original Elite/Oolite text be sufficient. K.I.S.S.

CptnEcho wrote:

aceshigh wrote:

what do you guys think about it?

If you wan't to play another game with fancy graphics or offer your UI as an OXP, go right ahead.

gosh, if you want to play the exact same game, without better graphics and stuff, just play the original at an emulator or DOSBOX.

the objective of a REMAKE is to make it better, more modern, isnt it?

I'm playing Oolite because it is the closest version of Elite available.
I like the original UI for nostalgic reasons.

thats EXACTLY why I suggested UIs as OXPs or two UI versions. To keep the nostalgic people happy. Cuz you know... if you offer UIs as OXPs, you have the CHOICE of keeping the original nostalgic UI.

I guess you are against the improvements in shaders and textures, since they end up with the nostalgic feeling?


the objective of this forum is for SUGGESTIONS to improve the game. No need to tell me to "go play another game" because I made a suggestion.

Aceshigh, you're perfectly within your right in making this suggestion!

Still,

aceshigh wrote:

CptnEcho wrote:

If you wan't to play another game with fancy graphics or offer your UI as an OXP, go right ahead.

gosh, if you want to play the exact same game, without better graphics and stuff, just play the original at an emulator or DOSBOX.

the objective of a REMAKE is to make it better, more modern, isnt it?

Sorry, but Oolite is not a remake as such, but we can spend ages trying to split hairs on that one - and what's actually meant by the word 'modern'...

I do find that 'go right ahead' bit quite interesting! aceshigh, there's nothing to stop you from actually trying to implement those changes yourself.

To me, that's the essence of open source/libre projects. For example, I liked the concept of skinnable planets so much that I managed to add that feature to the game, without actually breaking other things!
The new look ships by Simon B are another example of direct action: he felt the ships could be improved, he rolled up his sleeves and did the thing. And to go back a couple of years or so, the Advanced Navigational Array was created by another_commander before he became part of the dev team, let alone the Quite Grand Sub-Admiral he now is!

I have my hands full with 3 or 4 other things myself, and I definitely don't have the amount of free time it would need to alter the gui the way you'd like, so I'm not getting anywhere near it. Other developers might be able to help you out, or they might have even less free time than me.

If noone comes forward, why not try out CptnEcho's advice? I find being able to contribute that way pretty rewarding, but of course it might just be me! It can be pretty challenging to say the least, but hey, who said that everything in life has to be easy!

Kaks wrote:

Aceshigh, you're perfectly within your right in making this suggestion!

Still,

aceshigh wrote:

CptnEcho wrote:

If you wan't to play another game with fancy graphics or offer your UI as an OXP, go right ahead.

gosh, if you want to play the exact same game, without better graphics and stuff, just play the original at an emulator or DOSBOX.

the objective of a REMAKE is to make it better, more modern, isnt it?

Sorry, but Oolite is not a remake as such, but we can spend ages trying to split hairs on that one - and what's actually meant by the word 'modern'...

I do find that 'go right ahead' bit quite interesting! aceshigh, there's nothing to stop you from actually trying to implement those changes yourself.

To me, that's the essence of open source/libre projects. For example, I liked the concept of skinnable planets so much that I managed to add that feature to the game, without actually breaking other things!
The new look ships by Simon B are another example of direct action: he felt the ships could be improved, he rolled up his sleeves and did the thing. And to go back a couple of years or so, the Advanced Navigational Array was created by another_commander before he became part of the dev team, let alone the Quite Grand Sub-Admiral he now is!

I have my hands full with 3 or 4 other things myself, and I definitely don't have the amount of free time it would need to alter the gui the way you'd like, so I'm not getting anywhere near it. Other developers might be able to help you out, or they might have even less free time than me.

If noone comes forward, why not try out CptnEcho's advice? I find being able to contribute that way pretty rewarding, but of course it might just be me! It can be pretty challenging to say the least, but hey, who said that everything in life has to be easy!

Kaks, I want to contribute. But does the game engine ALLOW for people do modify the User Interface?

More than asking Oolite creators to CHANGE the game GUI, I am asking them to ALLOW users to change the game GUI, because I am not sure if its possible (and I talked to DeepSpace about it and he doesnt thinks its possible)

In fact, IF it was possible, I guess some people would have already changed it. I might be wrong of course. I would like to see some words from the developers about the possibility of changing the GUI.


Other things I am not so sure are possible to change simply be creating OXPs:

-hiperspace/docking "tubular effect"

- possibility of showing 3D scenes behind the UI while docked (for example, to show your ship docked inside the hangar of a station, with other ships flying around... kinda like in Privateer.



edit: I noticed you might be suggesting me to change the source code of the game... thats what? C++? I dont know programming. I might be able to pull out some simple scripts, some nice modelling and textures. But coding?
I better wait some programmer to hear and maybe like my suggestion. After all, there are tons of suggestions on the suggestions forum. Some suggestions the programmers might like. Some not. Some they may like but decide are not really important and put on hold.



As for CptnEcho's advice, you mean he suggesting me to go play another game instead of Oolite? Does he HAS any suggestion of such game?

No, I was definitely thinking of the 'change oolite' bit!

You're right, I was suggesting playing around with the source code. Something like adding specific background images might just be doable without going completely insane...

The rings themselves would be a bit more complex, since they're used for 3 (or 5, if you want to be really specific) different reasons: exiting/leaving stations, galactic/normal hyperspace jumps, and failed hyperspace jumps.

If you've got some coding experience, it's fairly easy to pick up objective-c(the language Oolite is programmed in). It's got a strong family resemblance with c, javascript, java, and even php! IIRC, another_commander himself is not a programmer in RL, so there's already a brilliant example to follow!

@aceshigh: Kaks is one of the developers and has said it pretty much the way it is (btw Kaks, thanks for the kind words). As I have said in the past, suggestions are read and evaluated. The continuous flow of ideas is what keeps us going. But not all ideas are implementable immediately. Some require careful planning, some may be easy to do right now - as it has happened a few times already - and some just go into the After MNSR category.

The GUI refactoring has been discussed in the past and there is a general idea in the air about making it more robust and easier to work with. This is a more design than content oriented change. There are no current plans to make it as requested, though. This would require rewriting code in a huge part of the game, which is inconsistent with the target of making a stable release sometime in the forseeable future. That is, at least, my opinion. And no, currently we do not support image driven gui like DeepSpace's or Privateer's. All this can be considered after the next stable is out, not now.

another_commander wrote:

@aceshigh: Kaks is one of the developers and has said it pretty much the way it is (btw Kaks, thanks for the kind words). As I have said in the past, suggestions are read and evaluated. The continuous flow of ideas is what keeps us going. But not all ideas are implementable immediately. Some require careful planning, some may be easy to do right now - as it has happened a few times already - and some just go into the After MNSR category.

The GUI refactoring has been discussed in the past and there is a general idea in the air about making it more robust and easier to work with. This is a more design than content oriented change. There are no current plans to make it as requested, though. This would require rewriting code in a huge part of the game, which is inconsistent with the target of making a stable release sometime in the forseeable future. That is, at least, my opinion. And no, currently we do not support image driven gui like DeepSpace's or Privateer's. All this can be considered after the next stable is out, not now.

thanks for the explanation, Another Commander.

Just want to make it clear I was not like asking for these things to be implemented right now. Just giving ideas for future releases (maybe far future)

You said Oolite does not supports image driven gui...

tell me... would Oolite support the current GUI overlaid over a background running the Oolite engine?

What I am saying is... would it be possible to... as you enter a space station, show an IN-ENGINE animation of the ship docking inside the hangar and landing on a hangar bay, and ships flying around inside the hangar bay? (maybe requireing new spacestations with interior modelled, or screen changing when you dock and a new screen shows the hangar bay model and X ship (yours) landed on the hangar bay)

aceshigh wrote:

tell me... would Oolite support the current GUI overlaid over a background running the Oolite engine?

What I am saying is... would it be possible to... as you enter a space station, show an IN-ENGINE animation of the ship docking inside the hangar and landing on a hangar bay, and ships flying around inside the hangar bay? (maybe requireing new spacestations with interior modelled, or screen changing when you dock and a new screen shows the hangar bay model and X ship (yours) landed on the hangar bay)

The closest I can see is some disabled code in the setup of the status screen that would in theory allow generating a so-called "test-scene". This has been there for very long and to the best of my knowledge it is untested and there is absolutely no guarantee that it can do anything. So, I'm afraid the answer to your question will have to be no, at least for the time being.

I like the Market and Planet screens of Deepspace. Maybe Deepspace can join the core development team? After all he developed an Elite-clone on his own only to be stopped by a writers ''coders'' block. But maybe he can shed a light on how he has done his interface.

If Deepspace has got the time and wants to code that interface into Oolite, he's more than welcome!

Pagroove, the principle behind it is not that mysterious!
Unfortunately, integrating that look with the present gui engine - and making sure it works ok in all supported resolutions - might well be time consuming, no matter what...

In any case, the codebase has already got the ability to add a background static image (or rotating ship model) to screens, but it's only used for mission screens at the moment.

It shouldn't be too difficult to change the code to allow different static background images for the market, manifest, galactic map, etc... screens. In theory, once that is in place, someone could write an oxp to show different sets of screen backgrounds depending on system type, technology, colonist types, etc...

It won't be the same as what aceshigh originally suggested, but it would be a step in that direction. Another change that wouldn't be too difficult to implement is to add an option to change the text colour on a screen by screen basis. Any further changes would definitely not be for the faint hearted.

Still, as I said before, testing all those changes could eat up a lot of free time. Deepspace, if you want to have a go, I'm pretty sure any of us devs would be more than happy to help you out with any questions you might have. Well, provided they're not too hard, of course!

Cheers,

Kaks.

Well thanks for the kind words and invitations. I have to say I would find it very hard to see Oolite manage the Deepspace GUI style. As has been mentioned DS was built to one resolution and that was 1024x768. A heavy graphical interface like DS would require the ability to scale all images for multiple resolutions or have multiple rez images for all eventualities if implemented in Oolite.
Also as mentioned that would require and hell of a lot of re-coding I would have thought. I don't think any of us have that kind of spare time at the moment I certainly don't.
You could get a feel for the DS interface with Kaks suggestions of Static backdrops and the ability to change fonts and colours I would expect. Indeed DS has a static render of the interior of a space station when you're docked.

Here's a low res version...



Certainly worth thinking about for a future release

I like that background. Hopefully such things become possible in the near future

I think you can have background screens now, can't you? I know background screens can be triggered by missions, so you should be able to create an oxp that displays a background without a mission....I think, no one quote me.