Oolite Bulletins

Hi people,

just a quick wish which I think will not destroy game balance once and for all (but perhaps my imagination isn't up to it at least how)

The passenger transport option is actually horribly broken due to completely absurd prices (you get nothing basically). So no option to trade along as a passenger liner, and that when the Cobra Mk III could take seven passenger cabins!

I have a simple suggestion how to reform this state of affairs.

At the moment the fares you get are between 100 and 1000 Cr per passenger. I suggest making them 20 times bigger.

The result would be, that a ship that has sacrificed a significant amount of storage space for passenger cabins could actually make serious profit out of this, comparable to passable cargo contracts. And for players with large cargo bay traders a new income opportunity could arise.

And I can't imagine that implementing that change in the code would be very difficult.

And it would add a nice new element to Oolite with the insertion of one or two additional variables into the code.

Will someone implement this, please?



L

A random taxi jobs OXP would be cool too though! Take a passenger somewhere for a decent price, but some may have enemies who come after after the cabbie. I'd agree though, the inbuilt prices are too low to really make it worth doing, which is a bit of a shame.

LittleBear wrote:

A random taxi jobs OXP would be cool too though! ... I'd agree though, the inbuilt prices are too low to really make it worth doing, which is a bit of a shame.

Concerning the oxp, yes it would, but there is the additional twist that if the inbuilt system would actually work (i.e. 20 times the credits) then a bigger ship could transport many passengers!

That would not be so easy for an oxp, the many passengers thing, I mean.

And I say it again. Why not implementing more passenger options.

Group passenger transport
Luxury cabins

And what LB says, Passengers with a price on their head or passengers that are demanding, irritating or just plain dangerous.

pagroove wrote:

Why not implementing more passenger options.

I'm really all for it - but I consciously asked a simple request to the devs because they got a bit unhappy, I think, about all the wishes people have who can't implement it into the code themselves (like me) and then their to-do list gets bigger and bigger ...

So I would suggest first things first. I can't imagine we get one of the core programmers to create luxury cabins and multiple passenger offers for 1.73, but I can imagine one of them altering a few variables in the code by a factor of 20 until then.

At least that's my reasoning for this request.

pagroove wrote:

And what LB says, Passengers with a price on their head or passengers that are demanding, irritating or just plain dangerous.

It would also work very well together with what Random Hits shows: That some of the badguys do hide in the passenger cabin of a ship! It also would make things far more fun.

About the luxury cabins: I like that idea, as passengers might comment "OK, I'll take your lousy economy class cabin, but you'll only get 30% of the transport fee I offered for a luxury ride!" or "Thank you for that good cabin, on my last trip I had a really annoying experience with an uncleaned cabin which did not even supply running water!" ...

That would not require much additional stuff, but could enhance the feel of the game!

I also do not remember a single person claiming that current passenger contracts are worth it, but that every comment went to say that the space is wasted on the cabin. A clear indicator that there's at least a multiplicator to add to the current system.

Screet

In my opinion, what is really needed is not a multiplication by 20 or other factor, but a way to give initiative to players to take on the longest possible passenger contracts. I have made a small case study and present it for you to review.

Below are two screens showing a passenger market. There are contracts for short, shortish and long transits here. First is the situation as we have it now. Very low initiative to take on those, really.

Below is my proposal.


I basically made a minor change to take the hops number into the calculation using a logarithmic scale instead of the linear one that was there before. The various distances for the contracts in hops are from top to bottom: 2, 5, 18, 3, 3.

As you see, for very small number of hops, the contract can actually be worse than now. Notice for the 5 hops case, we are equal. Small variations are expected depending on the case, but we are pretty much there for five or so number of jumps. Finally, note how tempting the long distance contract is compared to what it was before.

So, what do you think about it? Would this give the passenger market the push it needs to become more attractive? I would prefer to not go much higher than this, otherwise gameplay is affected and everyone will start doing taxi runs, completely forgetting about the cargo market. We don't want that, do we?

another_commander wrote:

As you see, for very small number of hops, the contract can actually be worse than now. Notice for the 5 hops case, we are equal. Small variations are expected depending on the case, but we are pretty much there for five or so number of jumps. Finally, note how tempting the long distance contract is compared to what it was before.

So, what do you think about it? Would this give the passenger market the push it needs to become more attractive? I would prefer to not go much higher than this, otherwise gameplay is affected and everyone will start doing taxi runs, completely forgetting about the cargo market. We don't want that, do we?

I think this looks sensible to me! It's a tricky situation. You don't want to make shifting passengers as attractive as shifting high volumes of gems and precious metals, but a multiplier based on distance looks like it might be a good idea. To equal 6400Cr for a 5-ton load on an 18-jump trip, you'd have to be making just over 71Cr per ton on every jump. That's pretty good, I think. Not amazing, but pretty good – which is all we'd really want it to be.

Disembodied wrote:

another_commander wrote:

As you see, for very small number of hops, the contract can actually be worse than now. Notice for the 5 hops case, we are equal. Small variations are expected depending on the case, but we are pretty much there for five or so number of jumps. Finally, note how tempting the long distance contract is compared to what it was before.

So, what do you think about it? Would this give the passenger market the push it needs to become more attractive? I would prefer to not go much higher than this, otherwise gameplay is affected and everyone will start doing taxi runs, completely forgetting about the cargo market. We don't want that, do we?

I think this looks sensible to me! It's a tricky situation. You don't want to make shifting passengers as attractive as shifting high volumes of gems and precious metals, but a multiplier based on distance looks like it might be a good idea. To equal 6400Cr for a 5-ton load on an 18-jump trip, you'd have to be making just over 71Cr per ton on every jump. That's pretty good, I think. Not amazing, but pretty good – which is all we'd really want it to be.

And if you can work out a good route - you can trade on the way as well - so not so shabby - besides Passenger Contracts are a good way to see the Ooniverse - finding Rich Agr/Ind systems in close proximity might bring in the credits but it's pretty dull - I used to take passenger contracts on occassion just to get out and stretch my legs so to speak.

As an aside (but related thought) has it been considered that for much bigger money passenger contracts could/should include the chance to do a Galactic Hyperjump? (i.e. a passenger or passengers who want to leave Chart 1 and head off for a new life in Chart 2?)

I basically made a minor change to take the hops number into the calculation using a logarithmic scale instead of the linear one that was there before. The various distances for the contracts in hops are from top to bottom: 2, 5, 18, 3, 3.

Sounds better than it was but I think you should go further than that. It should somehow use the passenger reputation. e.g. only use the logarithmic scale when reputation > 4

On the JS side we somehow need additional tools to facilitate scripted passengers. Since 1.72 we have : passengerCapacity and passengerCount as readable parameters. I thought about a way to make use from it to do a cripted taxi runs myself but failed to do so. You can detect you have a free passenger cabin, but are unable to occupy it. Maybe wee need a js function to add passenger-x for a fee-y to destination-z.

Hi Eric & A_C,

much better ideas than my own here.

Perhaps an additional option could be to have also multiple passenger contracts, for 2 to perhaps up to 10 passengers?

They could only be offered if the player's ship has enough passenger cabins installed (every passenger needs one obviously) and could, with A_C's logarithmic scale and Eric's passenger reputation, provide further impetus to take on such transport missions.

@Disembodied:

To equal 6400Cr for a 5-ton load on an 18-jump trip, you'd have to be making just over 71Cr per ton on every jump. That's pretty good, I think. Not amazing, but pretty good – which is all we'd really want it to be.

I agree.

The comparison is not completely fitting, though, as with passenger cabins, having a cabin onboard per se makes taking any other cargo but passengers impossible for the 5 tons of storage space used up.

Eric Walch wrote:

I basically made a minor change to take the hops number into the calculation using a logarithmic scale instead of the linear one that was there before. The various distances for the contracts in hops are from top to bottom: 2, 5, 18, 3, 3.

Sounds better than it was but I think you should go further than that. It should somehow use the passenger reputation. e.g. only use the logarithmic scale when reputation > 4

Good idea. Applied. For player passenger reputation higher than 4, the contract prices look like this:

For reputation < 4, prices are same as the second shot posted earlier.

Lestradae, multiple contracts the way you describe already exist. Just buy more passenger cabins.

Lestradae wrote:

Perhaps an additional option could be to have also multiple passenger contracts, for 2 to perhaps up to 10 passengers?

They could only be offered if the player's ship has enough passenger cabins installed (every passenger needs one obviously) and could, with A_C's logarithmic scale and Eric's passenger reputation, provide further impetus to take on such transport missions.

another_commander wrote:

Lestradae, multiple contracts the way you describe already exist. Just buy more passenger cabins.

Ooh! But there could be big space savings for multiple cabins. Most of the 5 tons for the cabin must be stuff like radiation shielding, life support, etc. It shouldn't take another 5 tons to add in another cabin. What if you could install "Additional Passenger Cabins" for another, say, 2 tons' worth of space each? What would that do to the economics? How many passenger contracts are generated at each station? Would it be possible for a player to end up carrying dozens of passengers all over the shop?

Lestradae wrote:

@Disembodied:

To equal 6400Cr for a 5-ton load on an 18-jump trip, you'd have to be making just over 71Cr per ton on every jump. That's pretty good, I think. Not amazing, but pretty good – which is all we'd really want it to be.

I agree.

The comparison is not completely fitting, though, as with passenger cabins, having a cabin onboard per se makes taking any other cargo but passengers impossible for the 5 tons of storage space used up.

Very true: if it's empty, then it's potentially losing you money.

Opening up the passenger contracts to be effected by OXP's is a good idea, I'm liking these suggestions. Here's a couple more for stories..

Someone onboard falls ill enough to need immediate attention or perhaps goes into labour. You have a short amount of time to get them to a station which if you achieve you get a bonus for your quick response. Perhaps a small chance (for the giving birth scenario) that later on a friend of the family recognises you, on the rare occaisions you bump into them, they become your wingman/escort until you reach the station.

An even smaller chance of the illness turning out to be some rare and fatal one where you have to get them to a specialist on time or they die, or the illness is of the kind they cannot be moved and have to stay at the station, you then have to go and fetch the specialist.
He may then ask you to deliver some important medical supplies for which you will be paid if you bring him back the receipt.
On the way there is a chance you will be offered a substantial sum by pirates who cannot get hold of medical supplies so easily.
If you sell to the pirates there is a chance when you are attacked that partway into the ambush they recognise you and call it off.
Perhaps they could offer you some illegal activity to become involved in.

A fat-cat (possibly literally) demands he has the cabins to himself, he offers a healthy bonus if you kick the other passengers out.
If you appease him there's a chance he'll take you on a bit of a goose chase in some political/corporate wranglings.

Not sure if those ideas are too specific as they would be repeated now and then, either they would have to vary alot like Random Hits or they would have to be very rare and lots of them.
Maybe the way is to do like Thargoid has with Planetfall so others can add storylines to the mix?