Page 1 of 3

Space Monster/Dragon/Creature to battle in Oolite deep space

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:46 pm
by dima
A detailed proposal:

(Motivation:)
Ok, so I thought I finally give this a shot - if anyone can help me get this into a space sim, you can. Ok, now don't laugh, it's not as silly as it may sound. There was a game by Psygnosis called Awesome, (only) a few years ago. I even created a SOTB "shrine" some years ago (http://kickme.to/sotb). Now the publisher Psygnosis was famous for one thing and that wasn't great games, it was style. They published several popular graphics demos by talented coders such as Shadow of the Beast, Hired Guns and of course Awesome. Awesome was in fact an Elite/Sandbox style game WITHOUT any Elite/Sandbox style elements and only the pure graphics/style/experience component. And to me it is the definitive early 90s envisioning of a gritty space sim that reeks of a strange atmosphere.

(Inspiration:)
And what I basically want from that game in Oolite is this:

Image

http://hol.abime.net/hol_popup_picture. ... ot%20n%B09

(this is just an example of how such creatures could look like)

Here are some more shots about the interesting design of the unfortunately mediocre game:

http://hol.abime.net/3352/screenshot

(Concept:)
To actually implement this idea, it should be kept manageable, small, simple and clear. In one word doable. My idea would be - based on what Oolite can do - some kind of "ship" in the shape of a monster/dragon/creature which spawns somewhere in deep space and does not attack you but fly towards your ship to harm it. The player needs to shoot it down before it does too much damage and that's about it. Think of it like an attack of Moby Dick in space. To keep it simple, no missions/rewards/quests should be involved for a first release. Based on what I learned about Oolite, its engine and scripting this should be actually doable :D

(Possible problems:)
A. The "ship" creature will probably just behave like an enemy vessel (pirates etc.) which would be fine, as long as it looks like a "creature".

B. Creating an interesting creature will probably result in a large and polygon-heavy object.

C. You may probably think this is a stupid idea.

(Requirements:)
Well, I have an exact idea of how this should look and would also do the texture for the model as well as any backstory other other 2D art. I have some skills as you can see in my Aliens vs. Predator 2 Retexturing modification here:
http://aliensvspredator2.filefront.com/ ... haul;83836
and here:
http://forumplanet.gamespy.com/editing/ ... 281/p1/?58
As well as in my texture modification for Shadowgrounds here:
http://frozenbyte.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=160
And in my 2D remake of the game Turrican which can be found here:
http://kickme.to/t4f

But someone needs to do the scripting and modelling (model doesn't need to be very nice, a lot can be done with the texturing alone).

Let me sum the current lore background up:

(Backstory and lore:)
[including excellent ideas by Screet]
We have a semi-organic worm-like lifeform which dwells in space/deep space. The lifeform navigates effortlessly through space, effectively streaking another dimension its organic fabric interpenetrates. (similar to jellyfish or eels practically floating through water, you could also imagine a fantastic chinese dragon flying through air). To survive, it only needs the energy emitted from the nearby sun of the system as well as metal/other anorganic extracts it needs to assimilate from asteroids or metallic/other anorganic objects floating through space (would also explain growth and why it attacks ships). It can travel long distances alone but eventually needs to return to it's herd.

Exaggerated additon:
Following one of these herds further into space eventually leads to a large asteroid/moon so big you could easily land on. The creatures are disappearing somewhere inside it. Taking a closer look you recognize that it's not an asteroid, but a larger specimen of the same species the others treat as some form of mother/queen/hive mind.

To fuel your imagination: Image

(Wishes and very overly complicated enhancements:)
Battle music that starts when the creature appears.
Kill counter or a bounty/reward system.

(Conclusion:)
So this is not just a request like "hey do this I'm too lazy", but a project that can be done in reasonable time ;) I did not include every detail possibly necessary to complete the proposal. Feel free to bash the idea, I just hope someone likes the general idea :roll:

Anyway, thanks for reading! ;)

Kind regards,
Dima

Re: Space Monster/Dragon/Creature to battle in Oolite deep s

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:41 pm
by Screet
dima wrote:
So this is not just a request like "hey do this I'm too lazy", but a project that can be done in reasonable time ;) I did not include every detail possibly necessary to complete the proposal. Feel free to bash the idea, I just hope someone likes the general idea :roll:
Hmmmm....with that head, I'm not too sure if I would like it, however, when I experienced the problem between the Caduceus (read: between turreted ships) and the Fuel Station, given the fuel stations look, I instantly had to think of that Star Trek episode with the ship-eating thing that looked like a stock of a tree...and in SciFi stories/movies, there's been many different types of space creatures.

There might be a few problems to solve/explain, though, in order that it somehow works. For example, it would have to move by some organic drive similar to thargoids, unless there's another really good idea. SciFi art often used "animals" moving through space as if it would be water - but that always looks somewhat ridiculous to me. Furthermore, unless it's the last of it's kind, there most probably would be others nearby. I could imagine a scenario like the player accidentally approaching a herd, the herd flees and the strongest of them turns towards the player in order to prevent him from pursuing.

If that's along the way you can imagine, the oxp might create those herds with a very low probability, maybe warn (or attract) the player with some newsflash and then, from time to time, the player can have such an encounter?

Please forgive if I went entirely away from your idea...

Screet

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:01 pm
by dima
Wow - no you didn't, that's a really nice addition :D And it prooves that I am still sane! Posting all this and stuff :oops:

(edit: the worm with the strange head is of course just an example of how the creature looked like in the other game)

So, I really like it but it sounds a bit more complicated. Actually the main target of this idea is to have some form of "proof-of-concept" or prototype in the game. However, I like this "herd" idea far better. On the other hand, if one ship/creature/thing can spawn, some other can spawn along with it, right? Like several pirates etc. :)

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:25 pm
by Screet
dima wrote:
Wow - no you didn't, that's a really nice addition :D And it prooves that I am still sane! Posting all this and stuff :oops:
The explanation with the metals sounds good to me! Since I've got ADHS and just cannot stop thinking about stuff (as I sometimes just cannot concentrate on what I want to concentrate on), I did have some additional ideas about this while attempting to watch TV ;)

For example, the movement through space...I said ridiculous...but then I may have an explanation: We only experience space with a very few dimensions. In oolite we know we can travel through wormholes...but scientists practically KNOW that there are many dimensions we cannot "look at" with our current sensory (both biological and technical), but they are rather discussing how many more dimensions there are, not if.

Thus I wonder if it would be possible to have some living being which is somehow tapping into those other dimensions in order to "have a grip" while moving through space? I bet with good technobabble, the answer is a clear yes. I guess worms would then fit even better than with some thargoid like drive! For example, the dimensions they would tap into to get that grip could be warped (by gravity?) and thus require a worm-like body in order to properly attach themselves to that non-existent ground and move.

Screet, who had a good laugh when the witchspace-jellyfish in Crusade (bad followup for Babylon 5!) tried to mate with the Caduceus-like cruiser, although they appeared to move through water instead of space!

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:31 pm
by pagroove
I say why not. Maybe an astroid with a random monster in it. Like in Star Wars. Space Trumble :twisted: ?

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:46 pm
by dima
Nice!! Sounds perfect to me :D I'll add that to the backstory right now...

Regarding the food chain, I guess Trumbles are in luck, as the creature reacts to anorganic and organic stuff hidden in really large objects (asteroids) and also any space vessels. No guarantees can be given for any Trumbles aboard an MK III in the middle of the action of course 8)

Now if someone had an idea on how to actually implement this into the game (in its simplest form of course). :shock:

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:52 pm
by Frame
Being me, i would create monsters with flashers to lure the player
and when the player is to close enough...

SnaPPP!!!!

Like in finding Nemo....

:twisted:

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:08 pm
by ZygoUgo
That's a good point actually, they could have a pretty spectacular array of sequenced flashers, like some deep sea creatures..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYeqxxeg ... =17&fmt=18

Probably best to see if you can get it to work first though. :D

Could it be they are biomechanical, created by some unknown race eons ago (excuse the cliche's), perhaps they have a method of communication that means they can send you messages warning to leave them alone.
It would have to get it's movement from segments, which the biomechanical tale makes an excuse for, unless it is naturally armoured, that would also explain itself.

If it's boimechanical it could have a pretty cool and unusual head using normal maps, similar in mechanics to the gargoyle head for the Feudal states OXP so then it can have a much simpler polygon structure, although some of those deep sea creatures have got quite amazing features.
I'll knock something together to show you what I mean..

EDIT It's a bit quick and cack, it's just another perspective to consider.

Image

I just noticed I was in a bit of a hurry putting it together, it looks like a daisy :lol: It was supposed to be a bit creepy!

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:49 pm
by dima
... *speechless*

You call this QUICK? I'd call it amazing! It even has that weird mystical fantastic feel some scifi/space paintings of the eighties/nineties had - and of course that Amiga game. It's something you definitely won't get from any other game. Mmh, actually I like your monster better than the one of Awesome! Exactly what I was talking about :D

I'm fully aware that that's not possible with Oolite*
Lestradae wrote:
Why not? Eight spheres with those textures stuck together and a few subentities, again with those textures, and the space monster is in!

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:09 pm
by Lestradae
dima wrote:
I'm fully aware that that's not possible with Oolite
Why not? Eight spheres with those textures stuck together and a few subentities, again with those textures, and the space monster is in!

Looks apropriately and cosmically weird, btw, a fitting cosmic horror :shock:

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:59 pm
by dima
Lestradae wrote:
Why not? Eight spheres with those textures stuck together and a few subentities, again with those textures, and the space monster is in!
:shock:

Hm, you're right, why not - as long as no additional fancy stuff is added, the picture should make a nice reference, still implementable in reasonable time with reasonable effort, hmm... basically yes, it could just look like a low-poly version of that picture :D

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:19 am
by ClymAngus
So technically you could sub-sub-sub entity tenticles and stuff?

Interesting I might have to crack open my zenon2 megablast sprite sheets then. They can be found online here by the way.

http://eabmobile.abime.net/showthread.p ... 807&page=2
Lestradae wrote:
dima wrote:
I'm fully aware that that's not possible with Oolite
Why not? Eight spheres with those textures stuck together and a few subentities, again with those textures, and the space monster is in!

Looks apropriately and cosmically weird, btw, a fitting cosmic horror :shock:

...

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:31 am
by Lestradae
ClymAngus wrote:
So technically you could sub-sub-sub entity tenticles and stuff?
Charlie managed to do that - the Constitution ship for example has a subentity which has a further subentity - a sub-subentity so to speak.

Problem is, that for some reason this noticably slows the FPS down, if you are in or near an object with double sub-entities. I think. It could also be the "flashers use too much memory bug" is responsible.

Try it out!? :P

Re: ...

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:33 am
by Commander McLane
Lestradae wrote:
ClymAngus wrote:
So technically you could sub-sub-sub entity tenticles and stuff?
Charlie managed to do that - the Constitution ship for example has a subentity which has a further subentity - a sub-subentity so to speak.
No, he didn't manage, because it never worked. (That something is specified in shipdata.plist does not mean that it actually works.)

Re: ...

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:39 am
by Lestradae
Commander McLane wrote:
No, he didn't manage, because it never worked.
I thought so too, but then I became curious and looked deeper into the matter, and I think it does actually work.

If you're interested, I'll dig it out and post it here as an example, either will have to admit I'm wrong then or perhaps it does work as I think it does - that would be interesting for some people too, I guess :wink: