Skinner’s Den

Discussion and information relevant to creating special missions, new ships, skins etc.

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Old Murgh
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Re: Skinner Dan

Post by Old Murgh »

montana05 wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:28 am
Griff's work is ways above my pay grade, while Krita offers the feature to include another map to the Alpha channel, I still don't know what the improvement is.
It's all right to study the masters even though the level feels worlds away. Anyone recall this being written about specifically somewhere?
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Re: Skinner Dan

Post by spara »

Old Murgh wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 3:10 am
Now if I could only figure out the benefits and methods behind the way Griff does his diffuse maps in a semitransparent style..
To my understanding it's just a more compact way for distribution. Instead of multiple images for different aspects, all is baked into one by using alpha for effects/normalmap/whatnot. I prefer (or preferred) to keep them in different layers when editing and producing different images for diffusion, effects, normalmap and so on. Makes editing a bit easier for an amateur editor like me.
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Re: Skinner Dan

Post by cbr »

Old Murgh wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:13 am
Anyone recall this being written about specifically somewhere?
I believe it is (efficient ?!) resource management. One image containing multiple functions.

But you do not have to use it to make use of the new material settings.
You can use single images for each specific purpose ( eg. diffuse, emission, etc)

emission_map is grayscale ' hidden' in the alpha layer of the normal.png

Code: Select all

"diffuse_map" = "himsn_con_diffuse.png"; 
"normal_map" = "himsn_con_normal.png";
"emission_map" = { "name" = "himsn_con_normal.png"; "extract_channel" = "a"; };
emission_map from dedicated png can be grayscale or colored

Code: Select all

diffuse_map = "himsn_con_diffuse.png"; 
emission_map = "himsn_con_emission.png"; 
normal_map = "himsn_con_normal.png";
Makes editing a bit easier for an amateur editor like me.
ditto
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Re: Skinner Dan

Post by Old Murgh »

cbr wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:10 am
[I believe it is (efficient ?!) resource management. One image containing multiple functions.

But you do not have to use it to make use of the new material settings.
You can use single images for each specific purpose ( eg. diffuse, emission, etc)
Ah great. Thank you for explaining. That removes a lot of the mystery and lends an air of optionality about the whole thing.
spara wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:57 am
To my understanding it's just a more compact way for distribution... Makes editing a bit easier for an amateur editor like me.
cbr wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:10 am
ditto
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Re: Skinner’s Den

Post by montana05 »

Just in case somebody is interested, I found this program by accident: https://www.texturesforplanets.com/. It's easy and free to use and includes several samples. In combination with a normal map, you could design some decent planet textures with it, Just don't expect the quality of another_commanders OXP's. :D
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Re: Skinner’s Den

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I spent quite a while revamping one of Aegidian''s old ships but this one came with a problem. After converting it from dat to obj it seemed fine, but after seeing it in wings with written text on the texture I realised it came in a mirrored mode. This was a minor problem, I cold always mirror the texture, but after converting it back to dat and looking at it in the game I see with dread that the model projects its texture from the inside out. Like that baboon in "The Fly"!

Anyone know if this can be remedied, or is the model lost to its bizarro destiny?
[edit]
No worries! A kind, smart man at the wings forum came forth with the help I needed. All good. :D
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Re: Skinner’s Den

Post by Cholmondely »

Old Murgh wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 7:52 pm
I spent quite a while revamping one of Aegidian''s old ships but this one came with a problem. After converting it from dat to obj it seemed fine, but after seeing it in wings with written text on the texture I realised it came in a mirrored mode. This was a minor problem, I cold always mirror the texture, but after converting it back to dat and looking at it in the game I see with dread that the model projects its texture from the inside out. Like that baboon in "The Fly"!

Anyone know if this can be remedied, or is the model lost to its bizarro destiny?
[edit]
No worries! A kind, smart man at the wings forum came forth with the help I needed. All good. :D
So, tell a dumb pilot; what is dat? obj? mirrored mode? projecting a texture from inside out? And how is this relevant to the game which I play?
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Skinner’s Den

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Cholmondely wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:43 pm
So, tell a dumb pilot; what is dat? obj? mirrored mode? projecting a texture from inside out? And how is this relevant to the game which I play?
Really? With all the information you absorb?
Well, when the game draws a ship it is a model in the .dat format, but this is an Oolite-only format. The models made in modelling programs are most commonly in .obj files. Then, to see a home-made model appear in the game, one needs to convert the .obj file to a .dat, which can usually be done successfully with a python script (Obj2DatTex.py), which the nice devs have made for us.

When one wants to wake the dead and play with someone else's game model, one takes the .dat from an OXP, and converts it to an .obj with different python script (Dat2ObjTex.py). This is not as reliable, I have a 60-70% success rate, usually old models are no problem, newer models often don't work, and I don't know why. For instance, I can't even manage to convert the modern buoy. But, so to speak, all of my old models, and almost all of Giles' old models I've been able to resurrect.

But some of the old Aegidians can come with a twist. When you open it, the texture can be mirror-backwards, or even weirder, project itself from the inside out. Like taking a picture and stuffing it inside a goldfishbowl, you see it, but it's very wrong when you expect it to be on the outside. I didn't know what to do and was weary I had to start from scratch and give up this poisoned model, but it turned out to be fixable in Wings.

Was this sort of useful pilot information? Pilots need ships don't they?
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Re: Skinner’s Den

Post by Cholmondely »

Old Murgh wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:21 am
Cholmondely wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:43 pm
So, tell a dumb pilot; what is dat? obj? mirrored mode? projecting a texture from inside out? And how is this relevant to the game which I play?
Well, when the game draws a ship it is a model in the .dat format, but this is an Oolite-only format. The models made in modelling programs are most commonly in .obj files. Then, to see a home-made model appear in the game, one needs to convert the .obj file to a .dat, which can usually be done successfully with a python script (Obj2DatTex.py), which the nice devs have made for us.

When one wants to wake the dead and play with someone else's game model, one takes the .dat from an OXP, and converts it to an .obj with different python script (Dat2ObjTex.py). This is not as reliable, I have a 60-70% success rate, usually old models are no problem, newer models often don't work, and I don't know why. For instance, I can't even manage to convert the modern buoy. But, so to speak, all of my old models, and almost all of Giles' old models I've been able to resurrect.

But some of the old Aegidians can come with a twist. When you open it, the texture can be mirror-backwards, or even weirder, project itself from the inside out. Like taking a picture and stuffing it inside a goldfishbowl, you see it, but it's very wrong when you expect it to be on the outside. I didn't know what to do and was weary I had to start from scratch and give up this poisoned model, but it turned out to be fixable in Wings.
Thanks! I've rejiggged this a little and bunged it in the "OXP howto model" wiki page. I had no idea about any of this...
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Skinner’s Den

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Cholmondely wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:16 am
Thanks! I've rejigged this a little and bunged it in the "OXP howto model" wiki page. I had no idea about any of this...
I'm surprised. But you may be right, with all of the different, in-depth how-tos, maybe a little introduction was missing. I'm sure I could tailor it a bit more for wikipurposes.
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Re: Skinner’s Den

Post by Cholmondely »

Old Murgh wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:50 am
Cholmondely wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 11:16 am
Thanks! I've rejigged this a little and bunged it in the "OXP howto model" wiki page. I had no idea about any of this...
I'm surprised. But you may be right, with all of the different, in-depth how-tos, maybe a little introduction was missing. I'm sure I could tailor it a bit more for wikipurposes.
Personally speaking, as a non-programmer, I've found the wiki pages on this sort of thing almost utterly useless. They assume far too much knowledge on the part of the reader. I'm sure that if there were better pages, I would be doing rather more interesting stuff with my attempts at oxp's. Montana and others have pointed me at one or two help sites, but lacking the context of where it all fits into Oolite (not too mention lacking any understanding of non-simplistic programming), they have not helped much.
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Skinner’s Den

Post by Old Murgh »

Cholmondely wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 1:35 pm
They assume far too much knowledge on the part of the reader.
I can certainly relate when it comes to trying to get an understanding of java scriping. The first babysteps explained are missing for me
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Re: Skinner’s Den

Post by Cholmondely »

Old Murgh wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 2:22 pm
The first babysteps explained are missing for me
Just had a decent look at this. I presume that you know most of it, but... just in case there are new elements (UV map, diffuse map, effects map, normal map).
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: Skinner’s Den

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Cholmondely wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:56 pm
Just had a decent look at this. I presume that you know most of it, but... just in case there are new elements (UV map, diffuse map, effects map, normal map).
Thanks for the thought. Yes I've perused this one, it was part of my re-education.
It's a good tutorial, and I like very much that he call's the UVmap "a dressmakers pattern".
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Re: Skinner’s Den

Post by Cholmondely »

Help!

I'd like to add a FdL emblazoned with either the Digebiti logo from Feudal States or my trusty funeral hatchment to Personalities.oxp

How do I do this? If I'm doing it in-game I presume that I can use one of the retexturing oxp's by Griff or Phkb (if they have the logo added). But I need some sort of file or whatever which can be added to Personalities.

Image
Image

I regret that I'm rather ignorant in this department...
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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