I'm starting this thread to mainly guage some opinion and as a bit of a thought experiment.
From what I've been reading there's nothing logistically imopssible about creating an oolite multi-player game (time consuming, intellectually painful, with possible copyright issues yes, but not impossible) . The question is as players what would you like to get out of a multi-player oolite experience? Would differing grades of games depending on your mood be appropriate? A kill or be killed Frontier territory ooniverse? An all out war? A quiet inner system trade game where you and a couple of mates can chill with a beer and tag team pirates?
What do you hate about current online space games?
What do you love about them?
Is it even possible to create a multiplayer game that's both quake and habbo hotel at the same time? Would anyone play it if we did?
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More details in this thread.
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Multiplayer. Social or anti-social ?
Moderators: winston, another_commander
I'd like to see an online Oolite as per the current game, just with a mix of human pilots thrown in.
Of course, as soon as you add people who camp at various points (witchspace beacon, stations) it stops being fun imo - and there'll always be that kind of person around.
In an ideal world you'd have a 'fair' game - if you work together with others you would have less capable ships and perhaps equipment restrictions as opposed to if you're a loner. But I can't see a way of building that into the game engine. Even though you could have 'clans' and as soon as you're a clan member the game adds restrictions that sort of system can easily be defeated by staying a 'loner' but still gathering as an unofficial group - how would the game determine that you just happen to be in the same area as opposed to working together in that case?
The only way I could see that of working would be if you played with a like-minded group of people on invitiation-only servers and have social rules rather than technical implementations of the rules. Unfortunately then you're most likely also limited to a fairly small player set which would end up distributing itself throughout the galaxy so you'd rarely meet another human.
As for the deathmatch / arena style game proposal, personally I'm not interested in that in the slightest.
Of course, as soon as you add people who camp at various points (witchspace beacon, stations) it stops being fun imo - and there'll always be that kind of person around.
In an ideal world you'd have a 'fair' game - if you work together with others you would have less capable ships and perhaps equipment restrictions as opposed to if you're a loner. But I can't see a way of building that into the game engine. Even though you could have 'clans' and as soon as you're a clan member the game adds restrictions that sort of system can easily be defeated by staying a 'loner' but still gathering as an unofficial group - how would the game determine that you just happen to be in the same area as opposed to working together in that case?
The only way I could see that of working would be if you played with a like-minded group of people on invitiation-only servers and have social rules rather than technical implementations of the rules. Unfortunately then you're most likely also limited to a fairly small player set which would end up distributing itself throughout the galaxy so you'd rarely meet another human.
As for the deathmatch / arena style game proposal, personally I'm not interested in that in the slightest.
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drew
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I think it would be interesting to see how people 'abused' the multi player game (camping out at witchpoint markers etc).
This would happen in 'real oolite', if you get my meaning, and would be dealt with by Galcop or the planetary jurisdiction. Perhaps there should be a significant Viper/law and order force present at points like this?
If oolite was real, activity like this would eventually settle down to a level of self policing. E.g. no point killing all the incoming traders, because they'll just go elsewhere: a classic case of prey and hunter ecological balance.You'd get syndicates of pirates, and cartels of traders etc in order to compensate.
Lots of interesting behaviour might result - and could be part of a feedback loop for the game.
Cheers,
Drew.
This would happen in 'real oolite', if you get my meaning, and would be dealt with by Galcop or the planetary jurisdiction. Perhaps there should be a significant Viper/law and order force present at points like this?
If oolite was real, activity like this would eventually settle down to a level of self policing. E.g. no point killing all the incoming traders, because they'll just go elsewhere: a classic case of prey and hunter ecological balance.You'd get syndicates of pirates, and cartels of traders etc in order to compensate.
Lots of interesting behaviour might result - and could be part of a feedback loop for the game.
Cheers,
Drew.
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FSOneblin
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Re: Multiplayer. Social or anti-social ?
Windows only and mandatory monthly payments (and jerks).ClymAngus wrote:What do you hate about current online space games?
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I have played multi player since Quake 1, i have experienced it all... all the emotions that you have when playing multi player...
The joy when you are doing well..
The frustration when you are doing badly...
The joy when you play coop with others
The suspicion that someone might be cheating(but you can´t prove it, and you might be wrong)
The joy when you archive something...
The endless annoyance of new people spamming the chat channel, or general misbehaving..
The laughing when something truly hilarious happens..
The forbidden joy by bashing someone you have come to dislike
The frustration of getting owned by the “kid” who plays 8 hour a day.
and I could go on and on, as you can see there are pros and cons..
The way Oolite is setup, you can easily bypass other players... fact of the matter is that AFAIK, no one has yet made a multi player free jump game, where you don't have to use jump gates in order to reach another system... so this is one big plus, that makes me want to give a Oolite Multiplayer version the thumbs up...
My only concern is of course, copyright infringement, how would frontier games respond to this...
Finally:
If anyone is going to write Oolite MP, they better make sure they take into account how to address the Player vs Player issue. because that is what it is going to come down too..
an example
A hunted player is quite surely going to see endless hardheads coming his way.. or people would have to agree on not using them against each other...
"No fish" as we said in Freespace 2 MP.. (a very nasty missile that was named piranha)
But then newcomers, who used the hardheads would be bashed for using them
.. and people would grow tired of telling it over and over again...
solution of course is to ban hardheads, from being used in multi player games..
But there is a very long list of these issues.
That was my 2 cents...
Cheers Frame....
The joy when you are doing well..
The frustration when you are doing badly...
The joy when you play coop with others
The suspicion that someone might be cheating(but you can´t prove it, and you might be wrong)
The joy when you archive something...
The endless annoyance of new people spamming the chat channel, or general misbehaving..
The laughing when something truly hilarious happens..
The forbidden joy by bashing someone you have come to dislike
The frustration of getting owned by the “kid” who plays 8 hour a day.
and I could go on and on, as you can see there are pros and cons..
The way Oolite is setup, you can easily bypass other players... fact of the matter is that AFAIK, no one has yet made a multi player free jump game, where you don't have to use jump gates in order to reach another system... so this is one big plus, that makes me want to give a Oolite Multiplayer version the thumbs up...
My only concern is of course, copyright infringement, how would frontier games respond to this...
Finally:
If anyone is going to write Oolite MP, they better make sure they take into account how to address the Player vs Player issue. because that is what it is going to come down too..
an example
A hunted player is quite surely going to see endless hardheads coming his way.. or people would have to agree on not using them against each other...
"No fish" as we said in Freespace 2 MP.. (a very nasty missile that was named piranha)
But then newcomers, who used the hardheads would be bashed for using them
.. and people would grow tired of telling it over and over again...solution of course is to ban hardheads, from being used in multi player games..
But there is a very long list of these issues.
That was my 2 cents...
Cheers Frame....
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pagroove
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I play multiplayer often in Racegames (GTR, GTR2, GTR-evo, R-factor and Grid) To draw a parallel:
In these games you always meet people who misbehave. Still, nothing comes close to the feeling that you have a good close race with honest people, which also happens.
As in games like Oolite I think that in the end multiplayer could enhance the experience but adaptions are needed. Such as a no pvp zones near the witchpoint beacon and stations. Maybe a police force or a detection system or a points system that you get more bounty if you kill a player further away from the space lance. So in the vicinity of the Station or the Buoys a PvP kill has no benefit at all. No credits and you could also program that in that situations no cargo containers are spammed. Otherwise kill would still occur. However outside of these safety zone's it becomes a real Oolite.
You could possibly also couple the allowance of PvP-kills to certain systems. For example Anarchies and Feudals become 'shooting zones'.
In these games you always meet people who misbehave. Still, nothing comes close to the feeling that you have a good close race with honest people, which also happens.
As in games like Oolite I think that in the end multiplayer could enhance the experience but adaptions are needed. Such as a no pvp zones near the witchpoint beacon and stations. Maybe a police force or a detection system or a points system that you get more bounty if you kill a player further away from the space lance. So in the vicinity of the Station or the Buoys a PvP kill has no benefit at all. No credits and you could also program that in that situations no cargo containers are spammed. Otherwise kill would still occur. However outside of these safety zone's it becomes a real Oolite.
You could possibly also couple the allowance of PvP-kills to certain systems. For example Anarchies and Feudals become 'shooting zones'.
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https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13709
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Killer Wolf
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the arguments for and against multiplayer have been done to death on other threads. doubt i'd be interested myself, other interests at the mo, but apart from the stuff you're asking about, you've got to consider WHERE you'd set it. as i said before, the Oolite universe is MASSIVE. 8 galaxies x 256 planets. online, what's the chances of ever coming across someone? the thing that would work for me, but which isn't really Oolite, is if, eg, you based the game in an asteroid field. not a choc-a-bloc one, but one w/ enough rocks spread out to make a decent environment. you'd have big ones w/ buildings you could dock w/ or drive into to trade w/, you'd have smaller ones you could dump mining robots on to get ore/gems etc, others you could but and plant your own base/garage on etc. in all that, you've got maybe a local planet/moon and several stations where you get equipment/specialised goods.
be kinda like Oolite but in a contained environment. the whole thing about trading even between planets in one galaxy would make coming across other players somewhat rare, i'd think.
i think there's a LOT to consider aside than just what type of game people want ~ and, i think, that would entail a LOT of work.
be kinda like Oolite but in a contained environment. the whole thing about trading even between planets in one galaxy would make coming across other players somewhat rare, i'd think.
i think there's a LOT to consider aside than just what type of game people want ~ and, i think, that would entail a LOT of work.
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Lestradae
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...
What about placing an Oolite Multiplayer option into an "alternate" galaxy, similar to another_commander`s "Galaxy 9"?
There could be a special piece of witchdrive equipment to get you there, and it would deliver in-game consistency if you alternate between single-player and multi-player Oolite.
L
There could be a special piece of witchdrive equipment to get you there, and it would deliver in-game consistency if you alternate between single-player and multi-player Oolite.
L
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DaddyHoggy
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@Lestradae and KW - I like the alternative idea - and KW's idea strikes me as being very similar to the "Firefly" universe - lots of planets very close together (relatively speaking) - no hyperspace required - just lots of fuel injectors and j-drives.
Oolite Life is now revealed hereSelezen wrote:Apparently I was having a DaddyHoggy moment.
I know there are a lot of people passionate about multiplayer games, both for and against, some of the pro's and con's have already been listed here.
Without getting into any of the arguments let me say that personally I am not the least bit interested in any sort of multiplayer game. I might be persuaded that 2 or 3 friends getting together for a joint mission of some sort may prove interesting to some people, it would not be Oolite though and probably would not have very much to do with trading, and would not interest me as I have no friends.
I am the founder and only member of antisocial networking.
Without getting into any of the arguments let me say that personally I am not the least bit interested in any sort of multiplayer game. I might be persuaded that 2 or 3 friends getting together for a joint mission of some sort may prove interesting to some people, it would not be Oolite though and probably would not have very much to do with trading, and would not interest me as I have no friends.
I am the founder and only member of antisocial networking.
I do like the idea of linking a couple of computers at home to play Oolite with another ICSPO* commander. I used to have a pal who set this sort of thing up many moons ago with dogfighting WW1 biplanes, great fun!
* I can't stop playing Oolite.
* I can't stop playing Oolite.
The Grey Haired Commander has spoken!
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drew
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I really like the firefly style idea - not quite 'Elite' but close enough. I think with 8x255 planets you'd just never encounter other players.
I can see a multiplayer game with a single system, with up to say 10 planets with different economies, each with different stations working quite well. No hyperspace, but everything else pretty much the same.
Busy enough to encounter people, big enough to allow some 'space' to hide. A multiplicity of space lanes. Contracts between planets etc. Some places would be obvious 'trouble spots' and 'safe havens'.
Cheers,
Drew.
I can see a multiplayer game with a single system, with up to say 10 planets with different economies, each with different stations working quite well. No hyperspace, but everything else pretty much the same.
Busy enough to encounter people, big enough to allow some 'space' to hide. A multiplicity of space lanes. Contracts between planets etc. Some places would be obvious 'trouble spots' and 'safe havens'.
Cheers,
Drew.