modernized targetting system

[Commander McLane]

Anyway, what you mean is the "View Communications Log"-key ("key_comms_log"), which displays the comms window. In my personal Oolite I've redefined it to the RETURN-key.

And it's a clever idea to use it this way to "mark" your victim. (Of course it won't work anymore if any other ship sends a hail after your mark, because always only the latest hail-sender is marked on the scanner.)

[CptnEcho]

The oolite targetting system is really primitive. Simple "friend or foe" displays were sufficient for classic Elite, but become very frustrating in larger battles and missions where specific ships must be located and monitored. Managing large group of mixed friends and enemies is very confusing. Missions that require finding particular ships quickly and then escorting them (like the localhero one) would be made much more enjoyable with more advanced scanner/targetting system.

I think the "X-Wing" style targetting system is really excellent and a good model to go on. The joy and fun in the game is being immersed into the mission goals and status, not (for me) on the mechanics of targetting and keeping track of goal targets (after all that's what computers are good for!). In order to build multi-part missions with multiple subgoals and have them be playable, the ship targetting system needs an overhaul.

In order to support large battles and larger missions where specific targets need cover/support, being able to:

+ target "nearest enemy"
+ cycle through all ships
+ cycle through all enemies, friends
+ store important targets into target memory hot keys so that you don't need to "-" and "+" your way through dozens of ships to find the location and status of just one.

For purists this new targetting system could be excluded from "strict" mode.

Funny, but when I played X-Wing and similar Star Wars based games, I found myself wishing for an Elite style scanner.

I agree there should be a way to hit a key and cycle the target-lock to the next available target, another key to cycle the target-lock to the next available hostile target and a third key available to cycle through friendly targets. This could be available as "standard equipment" or as a feature of of the enhanced scanning & navigational systems available for purchase.

I remember in Elite that the reticule (the target crosshairs) would change color from green to red when a target was in the center. This was especially helpful when firing at distant targets. I feel this should be a standard feature for all lasers.

It would also be nice if the navigation systems would show the course to the nearest star or planet when a player suffers a mis-jump or is yanked out of Hyperspace/Witchspace by Thargoids. Then a player could at least attempt to use their Torus drive system to thrust their way to the nearest star or planet and arrive sometime later.

I see no reason extra quirium fuel tanks could not be installed as internal equipment, similar to passenger berths. Like passenger berths, the internal fuel tanks would subtract from a ships' cargo capacity. I suggest that 5 tons of space could yield 3 or more Light-Years worth of fuel.
The risk of having the internal extra fuel tank hit during combat (causing a leak or the ships' destruction) may offset some of the obvious benefits to additional fuel reserves.

In the game Elite, Commanders could set their pitch & roll keys to remain "on" and adjust the rate of pitch or roll to match a stations' roll rate during docking manuvers. What happened to this feature when the game was ported to Oolite?

[nijineko]

those would all be handy. especially that last. ^^

[another_commander]

Welcome to the boards CptnEcho.

I agree there should be a way to hit a key and cycle the target-lock to the next available target, another key to cycle the target-lock to the next available hostile target and a third key available to cycle through friendly targets. This could be available as "standard equipment" or as a feature of of the enhanced scanning & navigational systems available for purchase.

This capability to cycle to next/previous target exists already, but it cycles through targets within range that you have already selected previously. I think that making it more complicated than this is something that I would expect to see in Freespace2, not Oolite. That's just my personal view, though.

I remember in Elite that the reticule (the target crosshairs) would change color from green to red when a target was in the center. This was especially helpful when firing at distant targets. I feel this should be a standard feature for all lasers.

This request has been already granted in the upcoming v1.72. But not as standard. By making a very simple edit in one file you can set it up to work for you. More details here. Oh, and you will need the Scanner Targeting Enhancement for this to work.

It would also be nice if the navigation systems would show the course to the nearest star or planet when a player suffers a mis-jump or is yanked out of Hyperspace/Witchspace by Thargoids. Then a player could at least attempt to use their Torus drive system to thrust their way to the nearest star or planet and arrive sometime later.

Unfortunately Oolite does not work like this. It does not matter how long you keep travelling in one direction, you will never arrive to another system this way. The same stands for witchspace. You will never find a planet by flying straight, so the enahncement you are proposing will not have a meaningful purpose.

In the game Elite, Commanders could set their pitch & roll keys to remain "on" and adjust the rate of pitch or roll to match a stations' roll rate during docking manuvers. What happened to this feature when the game was ported to Oolite?

Giles did the right thing and did not port this feature, although frankly, I don't remember it in any of the original 8-bit versions. The point is that the player has to actually do something themselves. Otherwise, we can also make the lasers auto-aim, the ECM auto-fire, the escape capsule auto-eject on energy low etc. Not porting stuff like this makes the game a more enjoyable experience. Again, personal opinion here, your mileage may probably vary.

[CptnEcho]

Welcome to the boards CptnEcho.
...
This capability to cycle to next/previous target exists already, but it cycles through targets within range that you have already selected previously. I think that making it more complicated than this is something that I would expect to see in Freespace2, not Oolite. That's just my personal view, though.

Thanks for the welcome. Yes, we're all welcome to our own personal views.

I simply feel that if a scanning system can detect something, there's no reason it cannot identify it and allow it to be selected via a keyboard assignment.
Pointing a weapon at another ship (even if only to identify it) may be interpreted as a hostile act, in some areas of space, eh?
I'm sure a reasonable price could be established for this feature to be sold as an upgrade to existing equipment or as additional equipment to make a Commander's life easier.

[Micha]

In the game Elite, Commanders could set their pitch & roll keys to remain "on" and adjust the rate of pitch or roll to match a stations' roll rate during docking manuvers. What happened to this feature when the game was ported to Oolite?

Giles did the right thing and did not port this feature, although frankly, I don't remember it in any of the original 8-bit versions. The point is that the player has to actually do something themselves. Otherwise, we can also make the lasers auto-aim, the ECM auto-fire, the escape capsule auto-eject on energy low etc. Not porting stuff like this makes the game a more enjoyable experience. Again, personal opinion here, your mileage may probably vary.

It wasn't an 'auto-roll-adjustment' system, it was simply being able to toggle auto-centering on and off. Personally I never used it as I found it difficult to control although it could make manual docking (slightly) easier as you didn't have to keep tapping the keys to keep the roll-rate matched.

[CptnEcho]

It wasn't an 'auto-roll-adjustment' system, it was simply being able to toggle auto-centering on and off. Personally I never used it as I found it difficult to control although it could make manual docking (slightly) easier as you didn't have to keep tapping the keys to keep the roll-rate matched.

You've hit the nail on the head.

I used that feature during manual docking manuvers until I could afford docking computers.

These days, a quality joystick makes manual docking much easier than 20+ years ago.

[Sarin]

well...with a little experience, I finda manual docking easy now, and I'm playing on keyboard. I don't even need docking buoy...so I see no reason for automatic pitch.

[Commander McLane]

well...with a little experience, I finda manual docking easy now, and I'm playing on keyboard. I don't even need docking buoy...so I see no reason for automatic pitch.

Ditto. I have never used anything else than keyboard controls in any version of Elite. And I really don't see any problem there could be with docking.

Or, to quote another board member:

Even if I get Terets Syndrome and Parkinsons disease I'll still be able to manually dock with my eyes shut.............. "Nursie......... it's time to change my bag"

[TGHC]

I did have a joystick with my old Amstrad 6128, but mechanically it couldn't take the beating I gave it in dogfighting, so it didn't last very long. By default I found the keyboard was easy to use although using the rear laser took a bit of practice at first (as usual for all of us), since with the joystick I used to turn it round 180 degrees.

[Micha]

using the rear laser took a bit of practice at first (as usual for all of us), since with the joystick I used to turn it round 180 degrees.

*blink* Wouldn't you be dead by the time you've turned your joystick around?

[Commander McLane]

using the rear laser took a bit of practice at first (as usual for all of us), since with the joystick I used to turn it round 180 degrees.

*blink* Wouldn't you be dead by the time you've turned your joystick around?

Nah. Don't underestimate our grey haired commander. He didn't say 'turn around with the joystick (and the wheelchair)'.

[gogz69]

the joystick I used to turn it round 180 degrees.

I employed this tactic myself years ago, sometimes got the dive/climb part mixed up.

[Cmdr Wyvern]

I did have a joystick with my old Amstrad 6128, but mechanically it couldn't take the beating I gave it in dogfighting, so it didn't last very long. By default I found the keyboard was easy to use although using the rear laser took a bit of practice at first (as usual for all of us), since with the joystick I used to turn it round 180 degrees.

I used aftermarket Atari sticks on the C-64. I managed to destroy a few in heavy dogfights. Hehe, those 80's joysticks were so not ready for Elite.

[Screet]

These days, a quality joystick makes manual docking much easier than 20+ years ago.

Yeah, I can back that...I wouldn't even THINK of playing this via keyboard - that would mean that I'd replace the old on/off joysticks of the 80's (like Competition Pro) with keyboard equivalent...while there are now sticks around which do very nicely have a full range, instead of on/off microswitches and which do feature rudder control.

Flying feels so much better this way, especially when yaw is linked to rudder. Matching rotation is no problem at all when you've got a good stick.

I just wish I had a possibility to link the hat-switch to the views, even though the hat has more directions than there are views from within the ship, it would dramatically help to switch between front and aft lasers, and mining for those who have side mounted mining lasers...

Concerning the targetting: For the ships I don't really miss the more modern target cycle keys, however, I do regularly get annoyed when I have to switch the scanner to maximum resolution in order to be able to find the cargo. The best way still is to do some scoopings during the fights

One thing would be very helpful for me, though: If the advanced scanner would make a difference between "clean" and "offender/fugitive" ships, so that I would not always have to turn and target the ships in order to know which I should shoot down.

Screet