Oolite Bulletins

Hi,

this probably hasn`t been done before, so I better ask.

In Realistic Shipyards, there are three player ships that have a docking bay. Ships can land in their NPC counterparts.

Is it possible to make NPC ships dock and undock with player ships via <key> has_npc_traffic </key>?

Would perhaps look cool for i.e. players flying a Dredger to see NPC ships enter the docking bay right under the cockpit ...

Someone knows?

L

Dunno. The player entry is special so may not react to this command in the usual way. Guess you'll be doing playtesting anyway for RS, so if you buy the dredger and spawn a load of traders by the w/p see what happens. I woudn't have thought adding the key will do any harm. At worst it'll do nothing.

The player entry is special so may not react to this command in the usual way.

Yeah, hence the asking ...

Guess you'll be doing playtesting anyway for RS, so if you buy the dredger and spawn a load of traders by the w/p see what happens

I`ll do that anyways ... just thinking that perhaps someone knows or can have a look into the code

woudn't have thought adding the key will do any harm. At worst it'll do nothing.

Hope so too. It`s just about three insanely expensive player ships - just thought to add this (if it worked) as a nice optical touch for have-it-all players ...

LittleBear wrote:

I woudn't have thought adding the key will do any harm. At worst it'll do nothing.

The later: it is just ignored with a player ship.

it is just ignored with a player ship.

What do you expect? Carriers are not meant to be player ships. And players are not meant to fly a carrier. So if you mix the two categories "player" and "carrier", it is only natural that the outcome will be sub-optimal (in the best case), weird and strange (in the middle case) or breaking things (in the worst case).

At least it seems the worst case won't happen, though.

But still, doing something that is not meant to be done is unlikely to result in an optimal, or even satisfactory outcome. So why bother?

Commander McLane wrote:

What do you expect? Carriers are not meant to be player ships. And players are not meant to fly a carrier. So if you mix the two categories "player" and "carrier", it is only natural that the outcome will be sub-optimal (in the best case), weird and strange (in the middle case) or breaking things (in the worst case).

At least it seems the worst case won't happen, though.

But still, doing something that is not meant to be done is unlikely to result in an optimal, or even satisfactory outcome. So why bother?

Shut up. Jerk. I did not expect that either. But I Think It is still a good Idea. You are just asking for a flame war here, pal. And I might be too.

FSOneblin, I would appreciate at least a minimum of respect in your replies. Your age is no excuse, it is an additional reason.

...I, too, got galled by the "why bother"!

That's not the way, McLane. If you go that way, then why bother crossing the ocean if everybody can tell you the Earth is flat, or to create vaccines if diseases are a part of God's plans? FSOneblin did step out of line, but the reason is apparent.

The good thing is that it was caught before L read it - we all know how sensitive his ego is...


Now, let's keep this the Friendliest Board This Side of Riedquat, shall we?

Carriers are not meant to be player ships.

Until someone goes and changes that.

You are just asking for a flame war here, pal. And I might be too.

Let`s just not go there, all of us.

FSOneblin, I would appreciate at least a minimum of respect in your replies. Your age is no excuse, it is an additional reason.

Must go both ways, another_commander. Long-lasting forum patron with a load of postings is no excuse, either.

But, as said above: Let`s just not go there, all of us. Let`s try to stay fair and at least polite. All of us.

...I, too, got galled by the "why bother"!

Me, not any more.

The good thing is that it was caught before L read it - we all know how sensitive his ego is...

OK

Now, let's keep this the Friendliest Board This Side of Riedquat, shall we?

Yep.

another_commander wrote:

. Your age is no excuse, it is an additional reason.

My age is an excuse for my grammar. Not how I act. I am sorry about that. No one (or board) is perfect.....

I'm perfect.

I have a few questions, not trying to start a fight, so apologies if it comes across that way....

Do carriers as player ships ever work? There is no way to buy escorts (I dont think), and there are some open questions like what happens if you hyperspace out while your escorts are deployed -- I think they will be lost.

What do we expect to happen when someone docks, should they be able to trade with us or something?

What happens when a ship with docked ships itself docks (can you nest ships like that)?

Also, if you play a really huge ship, like a dredger, how do you ever do anything like dock, arent you too big?

Does it make sense for superhuge ships to be available in a shipyard?

Hi Cmdr James,

I have a few questions, not trying to start a fight, so apologies if it comes across that way...

No worries or apologies needed, your questions are some that I have asked myself. I can tell you what the status quo for Realistic Shipyards is atm.

Do carriers as player ships ever work?

I have testflown some and yes, they do work nicely. Most of them turn rather slow and have high view positions - it leaves an impression of flying something big and heavy. And you can do all the things with them you can do with smaller ships, too.

Enemies can still be dangerous. Small ships are too fast to be hit easily with this slow-turning monster you`re flying. In RS, you can stumble over pirates with carriers! If your ship is small, RUN! If you have a carrier yourself, a quite interesting battle might ensue ...

That from 1.72 on, obviously turrets for player ships do work and a few of the big player ships in RS have turrets, will change the situation. I am already thinking of solutions, as this change will make player carriers that more powerful. Nothing conclusive yet - perhaps figure the turrets into ship prices massively plus give the enemies something that tilts the balance back

There is no way to buy escorts (I dont think), and there are some open questions like what happens if you hyperspace out while your escorts are deployed -- I think they will be lost.

I think Eric - warning, SPOILERS ahead -
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... has written an equipment item that are actually ten ships doing escort for the player and can follow through witchspace without getting lost. I was thinking about adapting that for RS, but I was already flooded with work and made myself stop before that.

So, no escorts in RS (yet). If I put something like that in, player carriers + working turrets + escorts might become too powerful - or I would have to make the enemies ridiculously dangerous. Don`t know yet. Open for ideas, anytime.

What do we expect to happen when someone docks, should they be able to trade with us or something?

That would be a really cool feature, but I have no idea if it can be done. My question was just related to it being eye-candy if you could see ships docking and leaving your carrier while you do whatever you do

If it was possible to trade, that would be very cool imo ...

What happens when a ship with docked ships itself docks (can you nest ships like that)?

There are already NPC ships that can do "nested docking", I think. If it was possible to get player ships doing trade with docked ships while docked yourself in a station, don`t know squared.

Also, if you play a really huge ship, like a dredger, how do you ever do anything like dock, arent you too big?

Most really big player ships can dock and undock without a problem - but you have to be really exact. The biggest playable ships - the Navy Constitution and the Deep Space Dredger - have trouble with small entrances like those of rock hermits. They can undock fine, when docking terrible things can happen Shift-D helps with the main station and always works. Besides those two mega-ships, usually there is no problem.

Does it make sense for superhuge ships to be available in a shipyard?

I think yes, but I guess everyone has to decide for themselves ... there is always the option to find it funny eye-candy to see those carriers in the TL 14 or 15 shipyards without ever buying one yourself - there are 170 other playable ships out there that are not carriers in RS.

Hope to have answered your questions acceptably without going into rambling mode too much

I am actually very open to ideas what could be done with carriers. At the moment, I am working on version 3.02 of RS that is mostly fixing problems that came from me being completely unexperienced at this sort of thing and a few new features (like, external views for all player ships).

After that, I might think of improvements like doing more interesting things with player carriers and integrating them better - but first things first.

Cheers

L

Lestradae wrote:

I am actually very open to ideas what could be done with carriers.
I might think of improvements like doing more interesting things with player carriers and integrating them better

Follows an excerpt of a PM I sent recently to McLane:

I love the idea, and these are only some of the things on my wish list (others being things like turreted stations, docking transition into a RPG/FPS engine, landing on planets, etc.)
I see a lot of extended gameplay for when the player is already bored by money without having anything to spend it on (there was even a thread about that) - buy a carrier and form a gang. Administrate. Become a pirate king, a warlord, or the commodore of your own yatching club, president of a mining company...

A few more ideas: mercenary captain, working for governments or private organizations like in LB's Random Assassins.
If you get the scripters to develop cargo handlers to deal with other ship's holds, you'd be able to plunder stations with a pirate fleet as discussed on another thread (remember the communal hold problem?); the same handlers could also be used with scavangers and buy their raw ores to process them and resell to any trading ship that chooses to dock.