A Solar Systems OXP - @Frame

[LittleBear]

The ships in the main Space Lane are added by Oolite itself. Oolite won't add any ships automatically in the "new" space lane to the extra planet and stations. ATM Lestarde is spawning these new ships. As these are in addition to any added by Oolite and other OXPs its causing a performance hit. A slow population of space near the new stuff should mean that there is less of a hit on jumping in.

[Selezen]

I definitely think that people making multiple planet OXPs should team up - think what they could do collectively!

@Les: http://hughesd.co.uk/elite/unlocking_the_frontier.asp

Is there a way to set a planet to be a gas giant? They could be used for fuel scooping rather than having to use the sun. That might be a good solution for the problem of moving the sun further away and thus making it more inaccessible to skimmers.

[Lestradae]

Hi @all,

I`m pondering on all the input I got. Just taking more time with this OXP than my first one. All the basic scripting ideas are already there - two weeks of work, and solar systems are there.

But I want to have a concise and consistent concept before I (or we, see below) do that.

@Selezen:

I definitely think that people making multiple planet OXPs should team up - think what they could do collectively!

I`m very much for making this a community project, if people are ready to contribute work & stuff beyond ideas. My scripting skills are not great. And more people can do more work in shorter time, and have more ideas than one alone.

Is there a way to set a planet to be a gas giant? They could be used for fuel scooping rather than having to use the sun. That might be a good solution for the problem of moving the sun further away and thus making it more inaccessible to skimmers.

Wow, what an idea! The gas giants as sun skimmer places, thereby solving the sun too far away problem - that`s great!!!

I had already planned for gas giants. They would have no ground stations and instead of radius ~ 4500 they`d get radius ~ 20000 was my idea.

My idea for planetary types, by the way, would have been:

* Moonlike, no moon
* Moonlike, one small moon
* Earthlike, no moon
* Earthlike, one moon
* Earthlike, two moons
* Gas Giant, one moon
* Gas Giant, three moons
* Gas Giant, five moons, one of them earthlike with vegetation, if the gas giant in question is on orbit 2 or 4
* Brown Dwarf (planet made radius ~ 30000 + textured with a solar surface picture), potentially on the innermost or outermost orbit of a solar system, thereby making it a binary or even trinary system! (as there are different lighting sources now possible, this might even give such a system unique lighting)

Question is, how to go about the fuel scooping? Someone is bound to know ...

@Little Bear:

I think with the ship population of a multi-planet-system, your route is the one to go.

How exactly does this hasNPCtraffic work? And do all stations in a given system have to have it?

@pagroove:

Maybe you shouls 'team up' with Capt. Kev. Just to prevent multiple OXP that add multiple planets.

I did already ask him some time ago. He said that he had too much to do already to get involved into yet another OXP. But if quite a few people said pretty please to him & he would be one of different people doing this together (aka he doesn`t have to do it all) perhaps he can be convinced?

OK, short summary so far:

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Consensus (methinks!):

* Sun shoved ~ 5 times further away in multi-planet systems (perhaps made 5 times brighter to compensate?) to make about right looking distances between the planets possible

* The new planets are far enough away that it and the main planet look like very small circles or stars from each other`s orbit - it takes about five to ten minutes to reach it on "J" - drive.

* Randomised, but always the same planets added to a given multi-planet solar systems.

* The other planets have one orbital station and a surface station each.

* Have traders start and land from new stations including the surface stations.

* Commodities logically changed for different planets/orbits to create an economic benefit for inner-system travel

* Somehow "switch off" the whole thing for specific solar systems like i.e. Lave, Zaonce or the Assassin`s ones.

* Find planets by planetary beacon that the ground station usually has which gives the Advanced Compass a "P" each.

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Disputed:

* Distances between sun and planets 1, 2, 3 and 4 etc. If following our solar system, they should be roughly 0.3 AU (AU ~ Sun-planet3) for planet 1, 0.6 AU for planet 2, 1.5 AU for planet 4 etc. I would set planet 1 closer to the sun for dramatic reasons (looming giant sun on the horizon, be careful as already cabin temperature rise - it`s hot "down there") ...

* End result perhaps 4-7 planets per system

* Shall all systems have planets, only very few, or, say every second or third, with the rest being one-planet systems?

* Inner-system jump-gates? For some Hurray, for some Kyaaaaaa!!!

_____________________________________________________________

Ideas, yet undebated:

* There are traders, police and pirates out there - spawned slowly by the other planet`s stations via "hasNPCtraffic" to avoid performance hit

* My planetary types listed above

* Fuel scooping at gas giants


Hope the summary helps to get into the debate without re-reading the whole thread.

[LittleBear]

Think has_npc_traffic has two effects. First (even without any AI commands) the station will launch a trader every so often. Second I think it means any traders around may select it as their destrination. The traders look for the nearest station with npc_traffic though so I'd have thought those in the space lane will still head for the Main Station, but traders launched by the stations on the surface may fly to the orbital station and visa versa. You could also give some of the stations a launch police ship at (say) two minute intervals to get some cops in the air.

[Lestradae]

You could also give some of the stations a launch police ship at (say) two minute intervals to get some cops in the air.

Are those commands actually documented somewhere? Could (again) be a case of me being blind, but didn`t find it ...

Hm, and pirates? Would they also be launched by the stations? Or hunters? What do you suggest about them?

Interesting third thing (besides solving the performance hit & creating traffic and space lanes simultanously) with your idea would be, that there would also be some ships to be found on the long space lanes between planets.

[Cmdr. Maegil]

Then there's my urgings for station OXP writers to do whatever LB did with his, and add a selector - somewhere - to decide the frequency ships should choose each station as its destination, besides only doing the main route or jumping out.

I, of course, have no idea what I'm talking about, so excuse me ...

If I could express it better to you code guys, I'd even open a thread just for it.

[LittleBear]

The station stuff is on the wiki here:- http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Station_Ships. Also try under shipdata.plist. You can use these commands to launch any ship you like. It more a question of what makes sense. Perhaps the bases on the planets surface could sometime launch miners and sometimes by "wreched hives of scum and villany" and launch pirates. Could do with alternate AIs or just using D numbers.

[CaptKev]

Maybe you shouls 'team up' with Capt. Kev. Just to prevent multiple OXP that add multiple planets.

I did already ask him some time ago. He said that he had too much to do already to get involved into yet another OXP. But if quite a few people said pretty please to him & he would be one of different people doing this together (aka he doesn`t have to do it all) perhaps he can be convinced?

Okay, I'm convinced, when do I start? Seriously though, there's some great ideas being discussed here, I'm sure I can help out in some way if it's a group effort.

[Lestradae]

Hi Capt Kev,

Okay, I'm convinced, when do I start? Seriously though, there's some great ideas being discussed here, I'm sure I can help out in some way if it's a group effort.

Cool!

Hm, at the moment a few topics concerning the concept have not been resolved, those here:

_____________________________________________________________

Disputed:

* Distances between sun and planets 1, 2, 3 and 4 etc. If following our solar system, they should be roughly 0.3 AU (AU ~ Sun-planet3) for planet 1, 0.6 AU for planet 2, 1.5 AU for planet 4 etc. I would set planet 1 closer to the sun for dramatic reasons (looming giant sun on the horizon, be careful as already cabin temperature rise - it`s hot "down there") ...

* End result perhaps 4-7 planets per system

* Shall all systems have planets, only very few, or, say every second or third, with the rest being one-planet systems?

* Inner-system jump-gates? For some Hurray, for some Kyaaaaaa!!!

_____________________________________________________________

Ideas, yet undebated:

* There are traders, police and pirates out there - spawned slowly by the other planet`s stations via "hasNPCtraffic" to avoid performance hit

* My planetary types listed above

* Fuel scooping at gas giants


Do you have any opinions to offer on those topics?

_____________________________________________________________

Probably resolved issues that should be in are:

* Sun shoved ~ 5 times further away in multi-planet systems (perhaps made 5 times brighter to compensate?) to make about right looking distances between the planets possible
* The new planets are far enough away that it and the main planet look like very small circles or stars from each other`s orbit - it takes about five to ten minutes to reach it on "J" - drive.
* Randomised, but always the same planets added to a given multi-planet solar systems.

* Find planets by planetary beacon that the ground station usually has which gives the Advanced Compass a "P" each.
* The other planets have one orbital station and a surface station each.
* Have traders start and land from new stations including the surface stations.

* Commodities logically changed for different planets/orbits to create an economic benefit for inner-system travel
* Somehow "switch off" the whole thing for specific solar systems like i.e. Lave, Zaonce or the Assassin`s ones.

_____________________________________________________________

What will be needed, scripting-wise, that I`m not sure I can do myself?

a) Textures for gas giants 1024*1024?
b) Diverse orbital stations for different planets/moons?
c) Ground station models? Perhaps imitating that "landing pad" thingy from Frontier - while they still have to have a docking bay well above ground.
d) Textures for brown dwarf stars 1024*1024?
e) A scripting solution for fuel scooping in gas giant`s atmosphere?

Idea input? Three things wanted:

1) Most interesting would be which commodities should be cheaper, more expensive, stay neutral or be not there at all at which planetary orbits. Ideas about that would be most welcome.
2) Best way to set conditions for certain worlds (say, has the system a planet in orbit X, has that planet a moon, where in its orbit in relation to sun & main planet is that planet etc.). I would do this via tech level & government type or suchlike but perhaps there are more direct ways?
3) Which randomised station names could we use for stations in orbit, on the surface, for moonlikes, and planetlikes, and gas giants? And how-to connect them with the system name, i.e. Lavebe 1 Gorbatchev Power Plant or Orove 4 Rainbow EcoDome ...

Choose

[Disembodied]

Along the lines of "less is more", perhaps it might be an idea to reduce the number of multi-planet systems... just a feeling, but it might be better if these were occasional "wow!" places to visit, rather than just commonplace additions which players might become blasé about. Maybe it should only apply to Rich systems; or even Rich systems above a certain TL and population limit? (They could be the only ones who could afford to sustain multi-planet colonisation, with all the extra station upkeep, police patrols etc.)

If there were only a handful of such systems -- say, two or three -- across each galaxy, each one could be hard-coded with interesting "special" locations, where unique items, missions, cargos, ship-types etc. could be found. With long travel times I think a lot of players will have to be given a big incentive to make the effort. Otherwise I think there's a risk of a bit of initial sightseeing, followed by a lot of "nah... not this time".

This is not to disparage the main idea! But if players are asked to put in a lot of effort then there would have to be relatively big payoffs. "Wow!" is, in itself, a big payoff: the spectacular and the strange have a big appeal. But asking them (us!) to trek across a system to find cheap ores or alloys or gemstones probably isn't enough to do it more than once or twice.

Some possible "special" places could be:

• Scientific/technical outpost (where they look for volunteers to test new equipment/weapons/ships)
• Prison planet
• Archaeological dig site (requiring specialised equipment, and shipping out antiquities)
• Anti-Thargoid early warning station
• Breakaway/rebel colony
• Duelling zone
• Religious cult HQ
• Interdicted world (plagued by Von Neumann machines or runaway nanotech)
• Other...

[pagroove]

Some ideas

Well I think it's wise to first experiment with a concept system instead of taking it on a big scale from the beginning. I would like to help with texturing (if I have the time). Of course the texturing in the set of Capt Kev are good so we could use them and expand them with gas giant textures. and add more planetary system.

The ground city's should have variants with a glass dome over it and without and embedded in the planet???

Maybe we could choose an already an enhanced system like Tianve or Tionsla en then expand it even further (of course adding permission to the original OXP authors) These could be the first multi systems

About the economy. I was thinking about having a in-system economy. In this economy one could fly more specialized products. from the planets to the main station. Which also then has an alternative market screen?

But I think most important is: Make one Proof of concept system that is completely working and then start expanding.

[CaptKev]

What will be needed, scripting-wise, that I`m not sure I can do myself?

a) Textures for gas giants 1024*1024?
b) Diverse orbital stations for different planets/moons?
c) Ground station models? Perhaps imitating that "landing pad" thingy from Frontier - while they still have to have a docking bay well above ground.
d) Textures for brown dwarf stars 1024*1024?
e) A scripting solution for fuel scooping in gas giant`s atmosphere?

Choose

I could start with a few textures for gas giants but shouldn't they be 1024 x 512?

[Selezen]

I could start with a few textures for gas giants but shouldn't they be 1024 x 512?

If I remember correctly, Oolite doesn't like textures that aren't the same length and breadth. Hence it likes 512x512, 1024x1024 but not 1024x512 or 1024x90.

[Lestradae]

Hi people,

some great ideas being shoved around.

I especially like Disembodied`s station ideas, i.e. archeological sites, prisons, etc., or pargroove`s, domed cities, etc.

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@CaptKev:

Yeah, gas giant textures would be great. And you are right: 1024*512 ... it`s planets! Wouldn`t it be better to have the gas giants and/or brown dwarfs at 2048*1024, though? They are going to be really big and look fuzzy anyways - if someone fuel scoops in their atmosphere, it should still look like more than mush ...

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@pargroove:

If you could contribute some station material texturewise? There are no textures for cities or (fake) landing pods anywhere, in my concept study I just stuck fittingly looking orbital stations onto the ground.

By the way, I don`t think we CAN stick stations into planets. I tried, gave them absurd amounts of energy, they get squashed every time. The ground stations in the concept study actually levitate a few metres above ground - but the relations in scope are such that this is unnoticable with the naked eye, and I suggest this as the way to go for ground stations.

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The one thing where opinions will just not converge is how many systems should be multiplanetar ones. The spectrum reaches from "all but the old systems" (i.e. Selezen & myself) through some inbetween steps to "a very few systems, to be visited like the Tianve pulsar as a curiosity" (i.e. Disembodied & Pagroove etc.)

My only idea of how to resolve this would be to build in some kind of "slider" by which every player can decide themselves how many multiplanet systems should be in there - the slider could go from "virtually all" to "extremely rare curiosity" with perhaps two or three settings inbetween.

That way, everyone is happy and can choose? Is this thinkable?

[pagroove]

@Lestradae>


1. Do you actually mean 'city textures' with 'station textures' ?

2. Of course I like more types of SPACE stations like:

Industrial plants of all sorts
Prisons
Shipyards (Griff and I planned a Coriolis factory at Vetice)
Cruise liners stations ( With big Cruise liners that cannot dock)
Race hoops etc..
Gas mining at the Gas giants

etc...

3. So it depends on what we want. But I first want to know what sort of stations we are going to add. I advice at fist to keep it just basic with normal Coriolis/ Dodo and ICO. And city's. To make sure the basics of the OXP work. Then you can start to add special stuff.

4. Well with our Standard Station Textures 1.2. just around the corner you can add a whole selections of stations.
--
5. More needed then are city textures and models ( who wants to model the city's and bases) and textures for landing platforms.

6. Why first just add a few multi-planets as a test? Don't get me wrong I like many multi- planet systems. But we first must have some concepts. Then let the public evaluate these concepts. Then we can start adding more.