A Solar Systems OXP - @Frame

[Lestradae]

oright made it to the habitat Ground Zero and im in the docking slit... and this adder got no more protection than the standard adder... so it can be done... had hoped though to dock... offcourse that is out of scope for this test,...

No, actually, if you are careful, you can already dock with the Ground Zero habitat, I`ve done it quite a few times now with a completely normal ship.

I was thinking about jumpgates though, but i´m not sure if that even would be possible, maybe via some scripting but that would require the modification of the players ship´s speed... momentary...

Maybe a nice fat explosion in the rear of the ship activated by the player flying through a jump/boost gate, that triggers the explosion... and boosting the players speed momentary... while he must assure that the gate faces the planet in question... and one for the return...

I was thinking along those lines, just don`t know if/how it can be done ...

[Frame]

No, actually, if you are careful, you can already dock with the Ground Zero habitat, I`ve done it quite a few times now with a completely normal ship.

Weird... i was in the slit and was turning around in there bumping the walls a bit and even going through the back of slit...

Maybe the Ground Zero Commanders didnt like my pirate sign, just above the cockpit ;-P

[Lestradae]

Weird... i was in the slit and was turning around in there bumping the walls a bit and even going through the back of slit...

If you try again ... go straight through the grey wall with the four lights, straight ahead. After a few metres you should dock.

[pagroove]

The idea from Svengali is good (I think). I say look at the galactic map. For example galaxy 1. Look for the worlds with the most jump routes through it AND/OR a high technical level. Call these the hub-worlds ( or special worlds whatever you want to call it) These hubs can be the expanded worlds.
And this leave also the some original Oolite worlds.

[Lestradae]

Hm, don`t know.

I for one would find it boring if solar systems were the exception and not the norm, if at all.

My idea would be more either to exempt systems that have specific stuff in them, or, if the distances stay as I would have planned them as yet, perhaps any special stuff would not conflict with general solar systems at all.

What would be the point if say a hundred of 2000 systems had more than one planet?

But, let`s debate this, I`m only doing it if there`s interest in the whole thing or it stays a concept study

[Svengali]

What would be the point if say a hundred of 2000 systems had more than one planet?

I think, no problem. I would like to see some systems with more than one planet :-)

[Commander McLane]

I would definitely like some systems with multiple planets, but not all of them. My suggestion back when the idea first came up was to have a certain area with multi-planet systems. So not some systems spread all over the galaxy, but let's say the upper left corner of Galaxy 2, or something like that.

This could be a well-renowned touristic destination - "Visit the astonishing multi-planet worlds! - The wonder of the 8 galaxies." And then have a background story that explains why in this region, and in this region only, multiple planets have evolved, different from the rest of the Ooniverse.

Another issue: I see why for multiplanetary systems you want - and actually need - to move the suns further away. But I wouldn't like to have this as a general feature in the whole Ooniverse (no offense meant, Kaks).

So, my opinion is: It would be a nice feature, but not for all systems. I would envision it like a Tianve.oxp on a bigger scale, let's say 20 or 25 systems. Something worthwhile to explore, because it is rare and special.

And I can imagine that I would spend a fair amount of time flying through these systems and enjoying them. And in that case I wouldn't mind to have to use my jumpdrive for long times - I've done that in Tianve, after all, and it was fun.

On the other hand, if the whole Ooniverse had these features, I would pretty much ignore them. Because I guess I would lose interest in making long and - lets face it - boring in-system flights pretty soon, however big the profits would be.

So my advice: Make something that is exciting, and stays exciting, and doesn't get boring. And my feeling from my personal playing experience is that in this case less may be more.

[Selezen]

It's actually already part of Elite canon that the worlds around Lave are the ONLY ones only to have one planet around a single sun. It's in the Frontier Gazetteer under the entry for Lave.

The trading centre for this region of unusual systems. Through some unexplained quirk of nature all systems have just one inhabited world orbiting a single star. These systems are often known as "The Old Worlds" as they were amongst the first to be settled, despite their lack of gas giants.

This is me being subjective about Elite again, but I've always imagined that the reason no other planets are visible in multiplanet systems is that they are just too far away. The hyperspace journey drops the player into the extended gravity well of the planet they are trying to reach (or where the witchspace beacon is) so that they are in close enough range to be able to get to the planet and its station quickly. The inconsistency is the distance between planet and sun.

For the record, I love the idea of multiplanet systems. I think it rocks. As long as the "Old Worlds" stay as they are...

[Frame]

Well, this Future OXP has to overcome Player boredom somehow..

Personally i think the Mercury type planet is to close to the Sun as if you end up on the wrong side of the Mercury type planet, you are infact inside the suns corona... (detecteble by fuel scoop)

Mercury, our planet is if i recall right 58 million kilomerters from the sun, and mankind has send a probe that survived the flyby without fancy energy shielding like we have.. so the mercury type planet has to be moved some distance back

Lets use our solar system as a Guideline...

Sun = posistion O
Mercury = Average Distance to Sun 58 Million km
Venus = Average Distance to sun 108 Million km
Earth = Average Distance to sun 149 Million km
Mars = Average Distance to sun 205 Million km

you see these figures fits neatly into an approximation distance of 50 million between the planets for the inner solar system

You had me modify Far sun script to 5 times the normal oolite distance, id say 3 times is more correct as is far sun oxp default... if we make the original Oolite planet 3rd planet from the sun allways.. You can call this Zone the "habital zone" or the Zone where planets with life can exist therefore it is allways this planet where witch beacon is nearest...

So if you want to add extra planets, using this guideline you add them at poisition 50(mercury type), 100(Venus type),200(mars type) beyond only gas gaints or icy worlds(presumed Pluto type) and so on... you apply this scale to the oolite coordinate system.

Offcourse you can alter the number of planets to your liking... But remember Gas Gaints can have alot of moons, therefore bases on and in orbit around these moons would be neat...

you do not wanna go beyond the range of Jupiter.. average 408 Million kilometers:: that would bore people to much like the current 10 min journey with a Cobra MK III takes to your current Mercury type planet, also the benefits of going to the mercury or Jupiter type should be that Hyperspace fuel is cheap while luxuries is more exspensive, machines cheap as a self sufficiant colony like this would surely have lots of machine shops. you just need to think about it when you set the prices for these bases...

But you see what you are in for... There also need be traffic beetween these worlds, therefore you need to write alot of new Police & Trader AI as you are effectively opening new trade routes. or else the systems will seem a tad empty...

shuttles to the planet surfaces, i would not recommend as these are easy pickings and usually drop theire cargo for you to scoop... and there would be no police around to protect them(no safe zone)..

So you got your task set if you wanna do this OXP, you better make it worth while downloading ..

[Lestradae]

Thanks, guys, for the input so far ... has sent me thinking ...

... Selezen, aren`t you the one with that great site on "from Elite to Frontier" etc. stuff? Where was that again?

So you say that it`s the Elite story that only Lave & surroundings are one planet systems ...

... I would originally have liked all systems to be many-planet systems ...

... some people would like that too, or only a few, or a special section, or 20 of them per galaxy ...

* Compromise idea: More than one planet is common, but not the norm. Every second or third solar system has more planets. But only every tenth has, say, five, and only two or three per galaxy have seven.

Ingame explanation: Most systems that have life have only one or few planets, hm a bit cheesy. Suggestions?

* Other issue: The distances (of the planets). They have to be about that range or the whole thing looks cr*p. BUT perhaps some one-time speed push could be installed, like planetary quirium gates or such like with a background story for introduction?

* Commodities: There seems to be a basic consensus. Details can be hammered out if the basic idea stands.

* Traffic making the whole thing meaningful: The new space lanes are just too long to populate them. My suggestion (just as in the test version I posted): In orbit around planets you find the traders, the police, pirates - but not inbetween. That doesn`t make sense anyways, if the pirates for example have the same scanners as us players. How would they know where their victims are? Hm , around planets is a good bet. Problem solved.

* The suns being pushed away not everyone`s darling. Just one idea: Would it be possible to make the sun BRIGHTER? For example, five times brighter for five times farther away?

* Performance hit still a problem, no idea. With five planets, game will go three to four times slower it seems to me, perhaps worse. Possible solution: See above, only every third system has multiple planets and only a very few a lot. Still, those very few = performance hit.

* Capital City of the system: I`d like to give the main planet one or two ground stations too, but problem: Different radii. Sure someone could solve that one for me, the placing I can explain How-To (basically ridiculous energy recharge and energy + perfect placement to the meter)?

So, "just shove a few thoughts around", that`s just me, "a few". As a flu has confined me to my living room`s couch ... there goes my real life out the window again and in comes Oolite.



L

[pagroove]

Frame's idea is good. I would be happy with it. Only problem is that the current planets screen only shows info about the main planet. With large multi-planet systems we must have more info per system. Otherwise it's easy to get lost

[Cmdr. Maegil]

* Compromise idea: More than one planet is common, but not the norm. Every second or third solar system has more planets. But only every tenth has, say, five, and only two or three per galaxy have seven.
* Capital City of the system: I`d like to give the main planet one or two ground stations too, but problem: Different radii. Sure someone could solve that one for me, the placing I can explain How-To (basically ridiculous energy recharge and energy + perfect placement to the meter)?

I guess most of the above can be solved with procedural generation so you'll always get the same star and planets, with the same radius - and it'd be more convincing too.

* Traffic making the whole thing meaningful: The new space lanes are just too long to populate them.

Leave the main route as it is, get the OXPers to make their stations procedural and with a chance of being chosen as destination for each type of station.
That way, each ship would define its own route as it was generated and you'll get ships flying all over the place on their own routes.

BUT perhaps some one-time speed push could be installed, like planetary quirium gates or such like

Kyaaaaaa!!!

So, "just shove a few thoughts around", that`s just me, "a few". As a flu has confined me to my living room`s couch ... there goes my real life out the window again and in comes Oolite.

Well, get better... or maybe not, stay in bed and script away!

[pagroove]

Just a little thing,

Maybe you shouls 'team up' with Capt. Kev. Just to prevent multiple OXP that add multiple planets.

If you need textures for anything we would be glad to help.

[LittleBear]

To cut down the load on Oolite, suggest that rather than spawning all the shuttles, pirates etc you get the stations to launch them slowly. I'm not 100% of this, but I think the performance hit is caused by spawning 20+ objects on entering the system. Particulaly if you have a lot of ship OXPs installed thats an awful lot of textures to be loaded into memory in one go (hence the hit on wiching in). You can set the flags for max_police max_traders etc up a way and also add has_npc_traffic, to get the stations themselves to slowly populate space around them. You could also tweak the AIs to launch ships by role (easy tweak the spacebarAI from randomhits does this). I think that would speed things up and also be cool for variety.

PS : If you've played Assassins you'll know the way I did it in that OXP was the WRONG way! It works but you get a 10 sec hang on witching in. Then you can take part in a multi-ship battle with no slow-down. I think the better way would have been to populate space slowing whilst the player is travelling to the destination.

[Cmdr. Maegil]

At least the ships already on the main lane should continue to be generated as they are presently, lest the player finds it empty.