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Balance

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:43 pm
by Kroc
Hello,
Thank you for an excellent recreation of the original Elite experience! I've been playing for a few weeks now, and I feel that there seems to be an imbalance in the game. For example:

* Asteroid mining yields such little funds that there's little reason to do it. Since mining requires special equipment, there should be something worthwhile and profitable in choosing that walk of life.

* I've traveled far enough to find a couple of close by planets to do a milkrun (Recexela and Quedle in Universe #2), whilst this is excellent for making cash quick, this is where the inbalance kicks in for me. My hull is beginning to limit the amount I can earn each run, and at 35K Cr. I'm only earning 1-1.5K per run, it will take me a month of sundays to earn enough for a new ship, and I already have a ton load of equipment for my ship.

* The trade in value of your craft should be much much higher when you've got significant amount of equipment on it. You should also be able to choose which equipment you want to keep when changing craft, trading it off against trade in value.

* A lot of ships are overpriced, and what's the point in a 750T ship, when you can't ever buy that much stuff, let alone afford the ship in the first place?

* Transporting passengers is also under payed. For the amount of time and planning, I would have expected to take up passenger transport as the next tier of earning, but the yields are too low

Can you give me any advice on what else I can do to a) do something different and b) earn a much greater amount of money and where is some good places to go sight seeing? I've been running between two planets for so long it's becoming dull!

Things I really like:
* Navigational compass and advanced computer to identify people
* Jump drive, witchspace injectors and the endlessly pretty purple tails
* Fastdock (but also a negative because it takes away the effort)
* All the odd things that go on out there in space, especially being able to borrow people's witchspace jump, and finding people who were carrying thargoids in the hold.

Things I'd really like to see added:
* Higher resolution planets with wider, more visable atmospheres / moving cloud layer
* Some sort of equipment that would highlight objects on the screen with a glow of some sort. it is hard looking at three or four pixels spinning around in the distance.
* Planetry mining and atmosphere management / colonisation (just like Warpath'97)
* Be able to eject cargo and auto-detonate it (e.g. to get rid of cargo to make room for some more you're picking up from a kill). Or computer enhancement that would tell you what was in a cannister.
* MMO Oolite, but that's never going to happen :P

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 1:08 am
by LittleBear
Need a bigger ship basically!

Asteroid mining isn't really profitable, but buying a python with its 100 ton capacicity would greatly improve the profits made on a trade run. Install all the OXPs (including those on Oosat1) and you'll find a greater variterty of ships available. Try some of the missions too!

There is a lot of exciting stuff going on in the Galaxys, but you will need to meet certain conditions to qualify. Have a look here:-

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite_Missions

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:38 am
by MtKlima
Kroc, Welcome,
* Be able to eject cargo and auto-detonate it (e.g. to get rid of cargo to make room for some more you're picking up from a kill). Or computer enhancement that would tell you what was in a cannister.
"Shift-R" to select which cargo to get rid of
"D" to dump cargo
It will not auto-detonate, either shoot it with your aft laser, or just leave it floating in space. (wait, don't pollute!)

Search the wiki http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Category:Oolite
for tons of info.

Keep going, it is worth it.

Best, Michael

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:18 am
by Rxke
yeah life is expensive, that's why there's a piracy or bountyhunting option, shooting up ships and scooping their cargo earns you a *lot* more moolah than trading

mining: shooting up the asteroids is not profitable except when they explode into shards, then you can scoop these shards as minerals..

Transporting people and cargo: after awhile the offers become better, you have got to earn some 'trust' with the errr.... traveling/transport agencies.

swapping in ships: do you realise your ship's price depreciates over time? swap a ship right after you have had a maintenance overhaul and it's worth a lot more.

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:49 pm
by Ulli
Rxke, how does scooping cargo earn me money? I find it quite time-intensive to collect all those cargo boxes after killing a couple of offenders, and whatever they carry doesn't earn me a lot of money (and in the case of firearms or slaves I usually dump it to keep my legal status).

And about the trading missions: I've seen quite a few gold and platinum transport missions that would earn me about 50k, but only while I was already on another mission (so I couldn't just say "ok, I take it"). Now, right past another 10-or-so-k mission I try to find another profitable offer, but the same planets that used to have them don't have them anymore (obviously), but I also can't find any offers even in the range of >10k anymore.

Do these super-profitable trading missions only appear while you are on another trade route, i.e. do you *have* to simply ignore your first mission, thus probably becoming criminal and ruining your trade rep?

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:12 pm
by HueijRevisited
Illegal cargo that you picked up after a fight doesn't change your legal status. Just be sure to sell it before you leave the next station.

I never buy any goods anymore. The money I make from scooping is way more than I'll ever get from hauling computers from a rich industrial to a poor agri planet.

Okay, I'm off, on my way to meet the Guild Master :)

Re: Balance

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:25 pm
by Dr. Nil
I agree that one real soft spot in Oolite is that while there are theoretically many ways to go, the game only rewards piracy and trading computers/furs and doing this using ships with at least 20t capacity. Which makes the MK-III the rewarded choice of native ships and tilts the choice even more for over-cargoed yet agile oxp ships.

The game really needs to make other options more playable.

I plan putting an extra option in for making some money in communist systems by hunting poor escaped convicts from the Astromines, but it will probably be a while yet, since I haven't got the mines to work as I want them to yet. The escapees will be hard to stumble upon, but easy prey with a real good reward dead and even better alive (if I succeed in implementing that).

Passenger transports with multiple passengers over short distances (1-3 jumps) with a higher pay-off.

More expensive and larger cabins for transporting VIPs at much higher prices (perhaps only available to pilots above a certain combat rating).

Medical cabins for sick transports. (Just trying to come up with reasons for awarding the player Cr for other routes of play - and perhaps other types of missions).

A mechanic which can be hired like a piece of equipment. E.g. 1000 to hire plus 50 per jump. Repairs one piece of equipment per jump (or per 3 jumps whatever) in order of failure - if anything is broken. Performs running maintenance which negates overhauls. Takes up one cabin. Name generated like passengers. Will only work for competent or better pilots. Oh did I try to bring that up somewhere else :P Well I'm running a little tired on having to make a gazillion jumps travelling out of the lanes in my small cargoed ship trading gold to pay 40k+ for repairing stuff after my last casual chat (in laser Morse code) with Hydras and Wolfs in league with heaps of others. I'm playing Military and Deposed at the same time which can be a little taxing on hull integrity. It just nags me. I really would like to load and go fight the bad guys, but I know that I can't really do that because I have to play lonesome trader long away from the lanes for a week to have enough for the repairs - and that's before picking the next fight. Even with the luckiest scoops of large portions of gems and platinum (and selling them at the Hoopy when the price is right) it's just not enough when the cargo only takes a few containers each run. And getting 200cr for killing a ship that alone did 10k of damages isn't good business. It feels like the game forces me to choose a Cobra or something larger which makes it harder to explain what the NPCs in the smaller ships are doing there. Blah-blah-blah my ship is broken and it sucks and I guess the way around that stuff is to start using the broken (game-mechanic-and suspended-disbelief-wise) pieces of equipment known as The Two Cheap E's - the Energy Bomb and the Escape Pod :roll:

I also see no reason why the mining part of the game shouldn't move on from it's pre-foetal stage. I suggest a piece of equipment for the Asteroids.oxp
The Micro Ore Processer. Requires Scoop. Takes up 80t cargo space. Turns scooped ore to alloys.

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:30 pm
by Dr. Nil
HueijRevisited wrote:
Okay, I'm off, on my way to meet the Guild Master :)
Heard in a lesser galaxy:
Daddy. I really need some Cr to repair my ship so I can finish my missions and go to Galaxy 8 and kill for a living like the big boys. I promise to mow the Zero-G tennis lawn for a month...

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:44 pm
by HueijRevisited
Dr.-SPACE-Nil wrote:
HueijRevisited wrote:
Okay, I'm off, on my way to meet the Guild Master :)
... the Zero-G tennis lawn for a month...
Bah... rich kids :( When I was young we didn't have a tennis lawn, let alone a Zero-G one...

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:46 pm
by Captain Hesperus
HueijRevisited wrote:
Dr.-SPACE-Nil wrote:
HueijRevisited wrote:
Okay, I'm off, on my way to meet the Guild Master :)
... the Zero-G tennis lawn for a month...
Bah... rich kids :( When I was young we didn't have a tennis lawn, let alone a Zero-G one...
When I was young, all this was asteroid fields..... :wink:

Captain Hesperus
"Giles on his Keyboard, that's old!"

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:01 pm
by Dr. Nil
HueijRevisited wrote:
Dr.-SPACE-Nil wrote:
HueijRevisited wrote:
Okay, I'm off, on my way to meet the Guild Master :)
... the Zero-G tennis lawn for a month...
Bah... rich kids :( When I was young we didn't have a tennis lawn, let alone a Zero-G one...
I hauled hides and electronics across the galaxies for every cent of of my ship. And I did things I wasn't proud of back in the Ionics wars. I've been in battles that made my tharg prisoner wet their ceratine plates. I did it all to get my small fast ship and pick some fights. But I just can't handle one more trip of flying outside the lanes due to my ships current state of disrepair. missing all the action and buying and selling stones and boullion knowing that there are battles to be fought and missions to be accomplished. It bores me to death. Give me a mechanic or bury me in interplanetary space. I didn't graudaute at Lave to be a freaking book keeper.

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:04 pm
by Captain Hesperus
#Cue dramatic music#
[quote="Dr.-SPACE-NilI hauled hides and electronics across the galaxies for every cent of of my ship. And I did things I wasn't proud of back in the Ionics wars. I've been in battles that made my tharg prisoner wet their ceratine plates. I did it all to get my small fast ship and pick some fights. But I just can't handle one more trip of flying outside the lanes due to my ships current state of disrepair. missing all the action and buying and selling stones and boullion knowing that there are battles to be fought and missions to be accomplished. I bores me to death. Give me a mechanic or bury me in interplanetary space. I didn't graudaute at Lave to be a freaking book keeper.[/quote]

/#End dramatic music#

Captain Hesperus
"Amen to that, brother. Now pass me the plasma torch so I can break open this cargo bay hatch."

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:50 pm
by Dr. Nil
Captain Hesperus
"Amen to that, brother. Now pass me the plasma torch so I can break open this cargo bay hatch."[/quote]
Work. Work. Work. It was always the same when the Cap was sore from trying to make room for one Rear beer too many the night before. The torch... Damn! This was not a good time to have to come up with an excuse for the missing torch. How should he explain having traded it for a few chips and a lap dance at the Hoopy, without incriminating himself. "Well Cap. Remember when you told me to... Eh, you could just hire a full time mechanic, you know"

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:59 pm
by Captain Hesperus
LOL :lol:

That's exactly what life is like aboard Commander 'Captain' Hesperus' Python, the S.C. 'Dubious Profit'.

Captain Hesperus
"Okay, we'll get the mechanic. Just they have to be cheap and able to start work with months of pay arrears."

Re: Balance

Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 8:02 pm
by ramon
Dr.-SPACE-Nil wrote:

More expensive and larger cabins for transporting VIPs at much higher prices (perhaps only available to pilots above a certain combat rating).

Medical cabins for sick transports. (Just trying to come up with reasons for awarding the player Cr for other routes of play - and perhaps other types of missions).
Great ideas! Then you could have missions like "The Transporter" film!