Oolite Bulletins

After a wide-ranging discussion on Discord and the chat room, plus some core code changes, we now have this: The Quirium Cascade Bomb.

In summary, this makes the Q-Bomb work the same way as the Energy Bomb did - it maps to the "Tab" fast activation key (if nothing else is mapped there), or you prime the equipment and activate it. It also doesn't take up a pylon spot.

It should work in both 1.90 and 1.91, although in 1.90 there is a limitation: while it doesn't take up a pylon spot, you will need to have at least 1 pylon spot in order to launch it. So, if you're flying a Krait, Mamba, Orbital Shuttle, Sidewinder or Worm, you won't be able to buy one. I think, though, in most cases, players will generally be flying a ship with at least 1 missile slot, so it's not much of a limitation.

I've polishing up the file names and equipment keys in this version, as it appears to have become a more serious OXP. If you've got the previous "SpecialQBomb.oxz" or "SpecialQBomb_1.1.oxz" versions, you can delete them in favour of this new one.

Download here: QuiriumCascadeBomb.oxz

I'll get it into the manager shortly, and follow up with an update to the Loadout By Category OXP to put it in the correct section.

phkb wrote: ↑Fri Aug 08, 2025 11:27 pm

In summary, this makes the Q-Bomb work the same way as the Energy Bomb did - it maps to the "Tab" fast activation key (if nothing else is mapped there), or you prime the equipment and activate it. It also doesn't take up a pylon spot.

In just those regards or in all regards?

Is it still a mine in all but name?
Does the player still need to escape its effect?
etc.

[

phkb wrote: ↑Fri Aug 08, 2025 11:27 pm

plus some core code changes

Is requures_empty_pylon (or whatever its called) still restricted to mines and missiles?

Redspear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 09, 2025 6:54 am

Is it still a mine in all but name?

It is still a mine.

Redspear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 09, 2025 6:54 am

Does the player still need to escape its effect?

Yes.

Basically, you buy the "equipment" item. And when you activate it, it launches an actual quirium cascade mine. So it's a mine in all but name. It just doesn't take up a pylon. In 1.91, you don't even need a pylon, and in 1.90 you don't need a free pylon.

Redspear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 09, 2025 7:04 am

Is requures_empty_pylon (or whatever its called) still restricted to mines and missiles?

Or anything that wants to use pylon mounts.

phkb wrote: ↑Sat Aug 09, 2025 7:19 am

Basically, you buy the "equipment" item. And when you activate it, it launches an actual quirium cascade mine. So it's a mine in all but name. It just doesn't take up a pylon. In 1.91, you don't even need a pylon, and in 1.90 you don't need a free pylon.

Why the change?

Wildeblood wrote: ↑Sat Aug 09, 2025 9:50 am

Why the change?

It came about from someone wanting to have the same gameplay experience as the Energy Bomb (ie mapped to the Tab key), but with something less player-centric as the energy bomb.

phkb wrote: ↑Sat Aug 09, 2025 7:19 am

Redspear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 09, 2025 7:04 am

Is requures_empty_pylon (or whatever its called) still restricted to mines and missiles?

Or anything that wants to use pylon mounts.

Are you sure?

Reason I ask is here.
I'm unaware of thins changing in this regard since then.

Redspear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 09, 2025 5:31 pm

Are you sure?

Well, I'm sure of the fact that there are a number of OXP's that have used pylon mounts for equipment and other things. Reval's Goods Containers, Resistance Commander's wingman flight comms system, to name a couple. Some have the "requires_empty_pylon" flag set, but all are given a key ending in "_MINE" or "_MISSILE", so from Oolite's point of view they are technically "mines" - they just don't blow up when launched. I think the core code has an implicit check for a free pylon with any equipment that has "_MINE" or "_MISSILE" in the key.

The other thing I'm sure of is that, in 1.91, the Quirium Cascade Bomb doesn't need a pylon at all, and I've tested in on a ship with no pylons. And in 1.90, it only needs there to be at least one pylon on the ship (free or not) to launch it. In the 1.91 version, the bomb isn't launched from the ship - it is spawned using "player.ship.spawn".

I *think* that's what you were asking. Let me know if I've answered the wrong question though!

phkb wrote: ↑Sun Aug 10, 2025 11:05 pm

I *think* that's what you were asking. Let me know if I've answered the wrong question though!

I would say yes if it weren't for the previous post still confusing me...

phkb wrote: ↑Sat Aug 09, 2025 7:19 am

Redspear wrote: ↑Sat Aug 09, 2025 7:04 am

Is requures_empty_pylon (or whatever its called) still restricted to mines and missiles?

Or anything that wants to use pylon mounts.

So 'anything' must still be labelled as a missile or mine, whether or not it is one?
So It is and it isn't restricted to them depending upon hoew they're defined (as a player or as a coder)?

Problem with that being that it would be launchable/expendable, right?
I couldnt for example have extra energy unit require a pylon because it's not launched/activated but rather passive and as such not desired behaviour that it be to launched/jetisoned?

I could replace a launched item immediately but as well as being clunky what happens to launched fuel scoops for example?

To be fair (and having just checked) the Goods Containers thread says

NB. As of this version, Goods Containers are non-detachable!

So I might need to investigate that and see if what I imagine is easly achievable.

After further investigation it looks like Cargo Containers does require/do the following

• require an actual model for the container
• has that model be launchable / capable of being jettisoned
• effectively makes a 0 speed, 0 damage mine which grants a bonus to cargo capacity when ocuupying a pylon

So based on that

• I can assign a property to a missile/mine while neutering its combat utility
• I can't assign a core item to a pylon
• I could perhaps mimic its properties but it would remain launchable and therefore function as a mine/missile regardless of combat effectiveness

It's a shame as otherwise the game would have a simple equipment slot facility that could be used (or ignored) by other equipment as desired but is currently monopolised by missiles/mines

Redspear wrote: ↑Sun Aug 10, 2025 11:55 pm

So based on that

I can assign a property to a missile/mine while neutering its combat utility
I can't assign a core item to a pylon
I could perhaps mimic its properties but it would remain launchable and therefore function as a mine/missile regardless of combat effectiveness


It's a shame as otherwise the game would have a simple equipment slot facility that could be used (or ignored) by other equipment as desired but is currently monopolised by missiles/mines

Here's something I cooked up:
PylonEquipment.oxz

At present, there is only one core equipment item available for use on a pylon: the ECM system. Importantly, you can't accidentally "launch" the mine - it will be instantly added back to your ship. This should serve pretty well as a proof of concept.

If you want to take this and run with it, it should be relatively easy to expand it to include more equipment items. Is this kind of what you had in mind?

phkb wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 3:36 am

Is this kind of what you had in mind?

I'm replying without having tested (or even downloaded yet) so please bear that in mind (along with my talent for stupidity ) but...

Firstly, thanks once again for trying to code a solution to someone else's 'problem'.

phkb wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 3:36 am

you can't accidentally "launch" the mine - it will be instantly added back to your ship.

However, this sounds like it CAN be launched but rather CAN'T be lost by doing so. So why do I think that matters?

IF that's the case then missile combat gets more fumbly as the player accidentally selects a non-missile/mine to target an adversary with or launch at them instead of the actual weapon they intended. And the more of them the player equips, the worse it gets.

I will give it a try to see if that's the case (and I nearly always learn something from looking at your code so it's unlikely to be time wasted) but the 'mine with benefits' workaround strategy that others have employed (and it reads above like you are employing here) has a knock-on effect for Missile use and therefore usefulness.

Is the easier core change to have Missile capacity become read/write?

Then it could easily be increased/decreased depending upon load out.

Redspear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 7:32 am

IF that's the case then missile combat gets more fumbly as the player accidentally selects a non-missile/mine to target an adversary with or launch at them instead of the actual weapon they intended. And the more of them the player equips, the worse it gets.

Redspear wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 7:32 am

Is the easier core change to have Missile capacity become read/write?

The problem doesn't go away by making missile capacity read/write. As soon as you increase the capacity, the missile slots would be selectable (if there was something in there). If you mean, increasing the capacity after launch, and putting the equipment into the open slots at that point, another issue would appear, because of the nature of arrays. As soon as you remove an item from the array, the array becomes smaller.

So, let's say you wanted 3 additional equipment slots. A Cobra 3's normal capacity is 4, so that would make the maximum 7. Increase the capacity before launch, and the player can fill it up with missiles. Do it after launch, and you avoid having the slots filled with missiles, but any equipment you put into the extra 3 slots would move down as soon as a missile is fired, throwing them into the missile selection mix. And in any case, you would still be able to select the equipment as you can with any missile/mine.

I guess at this point I'm not entirely sure I understand the reasoning for putting equipment on pylons. Is the idea as an extension to Equipment by Ship Type, allowing additional equipment that wouldn't normally fit in the ship?

Or were you imagining *reducing* the players missile capacity if a pylon equipment item was installed?

phkb wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 8:19 am

I guess at this point I'm not entirely sure I understand the reasoning for putting equipment on pylons. Is the idea as an extension to Equipment by Ship Type, allowing additional equipment that wouldn't normally fit in the ship?

After reading the above, that comes across
No worries, I appreciate your effort re my evidently clumsy explanation.

phkb wrote: ↑Mon Aug 11, 2025 8:19 am

Or were you imagining *reducing* the players missile capacity if a pylon equipment item was installed?

Crudely, yes.

Pylons for equipment including (but not limited to) missiles and mines.

I think the name 'pylon' might be causing confusion here.
Rather than imagining an empty launch tube when a missile isn't installed (as the core code appears to), imagine instead an empty space, ready to be connected to whatever equipment item was installed.

I'll spell it out as best as I can...


Imagine I was Giles, designing oolite from the beginning, then perhaps pause with a shudder and thank your lucky stars that I wasn't.

Suppose I got to working on the shipdata and thought, 'Hmm, rather than a missile slot being for missiles & mines only, I could also use them for other pieces of equipment. It might be a bit unfamiliar/radical for some and so I could just incorporate it as an oxp option (by making requires_empty_pylon work the same for any equipment item) and oxp tinkerers could then add more of these 'pylons' via shipdata as they saw fit, rather than my needing to add extra pylons to the core data for this purpose'.

What I then wouldn't do is restrict pylon use to anything labelled missile or mine and then further insist that they behave as such because, of course, that would be contrary to the above wish. If I couldn't change that then I'd likely grant missile capacity a read/write property.

The utility of that second option is that if I can't smoothly assign an ECM (for example) to a pylon (without all the undesirable elements mentioned upthread) then I can instead remove a pylon once an ECM is installed and restore it if it is removed. Cosmetically it works, functionaly it works, wilth no odd quirks like it being launchable or crowding my missile selection with non weapons, just a simple check to see if a pylon were free prior to installing.


If I code that without being able to alter missile capacity via script then I'd need to deny missile and mine purchase once pylon 'capacity' was reached (on account of installed item I'm imaginging to occupy pylons - small problem) but the player HUD would still display empty pylons (bigger problem) and there are more likely to be other conflicts because of the fudgery that was taking place.


If it still doesn't make sense then please consider making missile capacity read/write and then I'll write the oxp to show you