Oolite Bulletins

user2357 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 6:45 am

I get the following results.

Population:
Max: 6.4 billion
Min: 0.8 billion

Productivity:
Max: 56,320Mcr
Min: 768MCr

For both population and productivity, the minima seem to be the same across all eight long-range charts; but the maxima seem to vary from one chart to the next.

user2357 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 6:45 am

As to whether an overpopulated planet cannot produce sufficient for its needs (or whether another planet might be drowning in all the money), I'll leave that research in your capable hands.

#151. Ceesxe (147,16), {81,92,97} within 7.0 LY. Radius 4243 km.
Corporate State, Rich Ind. Pop. 6.4 B, Prod. 56320 MCr. HC: 3, TL: 15, Fierce Bony Birds.
The world Ceesxe is most well known for its vast rain forests.

user2357 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 6:45 am

I would be very much interested in your final conclusions, please, Wildeblood.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 9:54 am

My presumption would be that most of these statistics (Population, production) do not affect the game: Classic Elite took up only 26,138 bytes and there is a limit as to how sophisticated things can get.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 10:47 am

The information first appears on the oldest version of the Planetinfo.plist wiki-page (Galileo, 9 January 2006‎)

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 10:47 am

<key>population</key>
<integer>0..67 </integer>

Wildeblood wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 8:44 am

user2357 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 30, 2025 6:45 am

As to whether an overpopulated planet cannot produce sufficient for its needs (or whether another planet might be drowning in all the money), I'll leave that research in your capable hands.

It's worth noting that the extremes of both population and productivity (and also technology) occur on chart 1, specifically on Ceesxe, which is in the top-right corner, in the Tianve nebula. Basically, once you've reached Ceesxe, it's all downhill from there. That's a disincentive to explore the other seven charts, so we probably shouldn't mention it too often.

#151. Ceesxe (147,16), {81,92,97} within 7.0 LY. Radius 4243 km.
Corporate State, Rich Ind. Pop. 6.4 B, Prod. 56320 MCr. HC: 3, TL: 15, Fierce Bony Birds.
The world Ceesxe is most well known for its vast rain forests.

Pluisje wrote: ↑Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:49 pm

Capt. Murphy wrote:

High Tech Corporate States being high detection rate, Low Tech Anarchies low detection rate. <..snip..>

I would like a variable detection chance too. But why not base it only on tech level? So much other stuff is based on government type, it would be a nice change.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Mar 31, 2025 8:13 am

So can you tell us anything about it? Why is it so poor? Are the local lobsters all witchspace lobster fanatics - or not? What is there to see? Why is it revolting? And is it revolting for other lobsters? And do the Edzaarians think it is revolting?

Qwen2.5-Max
This is a great refinement to ensure that dynooverse respects existing custom descriptions and only modifies systems with default descriptions. To achieve this, you can implement a mechanism to detect whether a system's description matches the default pattern or has already been customized by another mod or script.

Here’s how you can approach this:

1. Understand Default Descriptions
Default system descriptions in Oolite typically follow a predictable pattern, such as:

"Agricultural colony"
"Industrial hub"
"Sparse asteroid field"
These descriptions are usually short and generic. If a mod has already replaced the description with something more detailed or unique, dynooverse should leave it untouched.

2. Solution: Detect Default Descriptions
You can use a regular expression (regex) to identify default descriptions based on their patterns. For example:

Default descriptions often include keywords like "agricultural," "industrial," "sparse," "rich," etc.
They are usually short and lack complex phrasing.
By defining a regex pattern that matches default descriptions, you can check whether a system's description matches the pattern before modifying it.

3. Implementation
Step 1: Define a Regex for Default Descriptions
Create a regex pattern that captures the characteristics of default descriptions. For example:

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const defaultDescriptionPattern = /^(Agricultural|Industrial|Sparse|Rich|Poor|Mainly)\b/;
This pattern matches descriptions starting with common keywords like "Agricultural," "Industrial," "Sparse," etc.
The \b ensures that the match is at a word boundary, avoiding partial matches.
Step 2: Check Before Modifying
Before updating a system's description, check if its current description matches the default pattern. Only proceed with the update if it does.

Update the case 5 block in dayChanged as follows:

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case 5: // Description
let oldDescription = sys.description;

// Check if the description matches the default pattern
if (defaultDescriptionPattern.test(oldDescription)) {
sys.description = this._viceRegalNotices();
this._sendMessage(sysID, sys.name, "Description", oldDescription, sys.description);
} else {
log(this.name, `Skipping description update for ${sys.name} (${sysID}): Custom description detected.`);
}
break;
Step 3: Log Skipped Updates
The log statement ensures that you can track when a description update is skipped due to a custom description being present. This is useful for debugging and verifying the behavior of the script.

4. Example Walkthrough
Case 1: Default Description
If a system's description is "Agricultural colony":

The regex matches because it starts with "Agricultural."
dynooverse generates a new description using _viceRegalNotices and updates the system.
Case 2: Custom Description
If a system's description is "The thriving trade hub of Lave":

The regex does not match because it does not start with a default keyword.
dynooverse skips the update and logs:
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Skipping description update for Lave (131): Custom description detected.
5. Refinements
5.1 Expand the Regex
If the default descriptions in your game universe vary significantly, you can expand the regex to include more patterns. For example:

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const defaultDescriptionPattern = /^(Agricultural|Industrial|Sparse|Rich|Poor|Mainly|Rocky|Dusty|Barren|Fertile)\b/;
5.2 Allow Whitelisting
If you want to explicitly allow certain mods or scripts to modify descriptions while still protecting others, you could maintain a whitelist of allowed prefixes or keywords. For example:

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const allowedPrefixes = ["CustomMod:", "Dynooverse:"];
if (!allowedPrefixes.some(prefix => oldDescription.startsWith(prefix)) &&
defaultDescriptionPattern.test(oldDescription)) {
sys.description = this._viceRegalNotices();
this._sendMessage(sysID, sys.name, "Description", oldDescription, sys.description);
}
5.3 Preserve Custom Descriptions
If you later decide to allow dynooverse to append to custom descriptions instead of overwriting them, you can modify the logic accordingly:

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if (defaultDescriptionPattern.test(oldDescription)) {
sys.description = this._viceRegalNotices(); // Replace default descriptions
} else {
sys.description += " " + this._viceRegalNotices(); // Append to custom descriptions
}
6. Final Code Snippet
Here’s the updated case 5 block with the refinement:

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case 5: // Description
let oldDescription = sys.description;

// Regex to detect default descriptions
const defaultDescriptionPattern = /^(Agricultural|Industrial|Sparse|Rich|Poor|Mainly)\b/;

// Check if the description matches the default pattern
if (defaultDescriptionPattern.test(oldDescription)) {
sys.description = this._viceRegalNotices();
this._sendMessage(sysID, sys.name, "Description", oldDescription, sys.description);
} else {
log(this.name, `Skipping description update for ${sys.name} (${sysID}): Custom description detected.`);
}
break;
7. Benefits of This Approach
Respect for Mods :
Other mods or scripts that replace system descriptions will not be overwritten, preserving their contributions.
Selective Updates :
Only systems with default descriptions are modified, ensuring consistency with the intended behavior of dynooverse .
Extensibility :
The regex can be easily expanded or adjusted to accommodate additional default patterns.
Transparency :
Logging skipped updates provides visibility into the script's behavior, making it easier to debug or verify.
8. Conclusion
This refinement ensures that dynooverse interacts gracefully with other mods and scripts while still achieving its goal of dynamically enhancing system descriptions. By using a regex to detect default descriptions, you can selectively apply changes without disrupting custom content.

Let me know if you’d like further assistance or have additional ideas for refining dynooverse ! Once you're ready to return to Middlemap , I’ll be happy to help with that as well.

Qwen2.5-Max
That’s a clever and pragmatic approach! If default descriptions are consistently short and custom descriptions are invariably longer, then using the length of the description as a criterion is a much simpler and efficient solution. It avoids the complexity of regex patterns while still achieving the desired behavior.

Let’s refine your idea and implement it in the script.

1. Why This Works
Default descriptions in Oolite are typically concise (e.g., "Agricultural colony", "Industrial hub"), often under 30–40 characters.
Custom descriptions added by mods or scripts tend to be more elaborate, often exceeding 50–60 characters.
By setting a reasonable cutoff length (e.g., 40 or 50), you can reliably distinguish between default and custom descriptions.
2. Implementation
Step 1: Define a Cutoff Length
Choose a cutoff value based on the typical length of default descriptions. For example:

If most default descriptions are under 40 characters, set the cutoff to 40.
If you want to be more conservative, set it to 50.
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const DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF = 40; // Adjust this value as needed
Step 2: Check Description Length
Before modifying a system's description, check its length using .length. Only proceed if the description is shorter than the cutoff.

Update the case 5 block in dayChanged as follows:

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case 5: // Description
let oldDescription = sys.description;

// Check if the description is below the cutoff length
if (oldDescription.length < DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF) {
sys.description = this._viceRegalNotices();
this._sendMessage(sysID, sys.name, "Description", oldDescription, sys.description);
} else {
log(this.name, `Skipping description update for ${sys.name} (${sysID}): Custom description detected.`);
}
break;
3. Example Walkthrough
Case 1: Default Description
If a system's description is "Agricultural colony" (length = 20):

The length is less than DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF (40).
dynooverse generates a new description using _viceRegalNotices and updates the system.
Case 2: Custom Description
If a system's description is "The thriving trade hub of Lave, known for its bustling markets and vibrant culture." (length = 85):

The length exceeds DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF (40).
dynooverse skips the update and logs:
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Skipping description update for Lave (131): Custom description detected.
4. Advantages of This Approach
Simplicity :
The logic is straightforward and easy to understand.
No need for complex regex patterns or keyword matching.
Efficiency :
Checking the length of a string is computationally inexpensive.
Flexibility :
You can easily adjust the cutoff value (DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF) to suit your needs.
Robustness :
As long as default descriptions remain short and custom descriptions are longer, this approach will work reliably.
5. Refinements
5.1 Logging Details
To make the logging more informative, include the length of the description in the log message:

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log(this.name, `Skipping description update for ${sys.name} (${sysID}): Description length is ${oldDescription.length}, which exceeds the cutoff (${DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF}).`);
5.2 Dynamic Cutoff
If you want to allow other scripts or mods to define their own cutoff values, you could expose DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF as a configurable parameter:

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this.DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF = 40; // Default value
Other scripts could then modify it at runtime:

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worldScripts.dynooverse.DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF = 50;
5.3 Edge Cases
Consider edge cases where a custom description might be shorter than the cutoff due to unusual formatting. For example:

A mod might use abbreviations or terse phrasing.
A description might be artificially shortened for stylistic reasons.
If this is a concern, you could combine the length check with a simple keyword test (e.g., checking for "agricultural" or "industrial") for additional safety.

6. Final Code Snippet
Here’s the updated case 5 block with the refinement:

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case 5: // Description
let oldDescription = sys.description;

// Define the cutoff length for default descriptions
const DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF = 40; // Adjust this value as needed

// Check if the description is below the cutoff length
if (oldDescription.length < DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF) {
sys.description = this._viceRegalNotices();
this._sendMessage(sysID, sys.name, "Description", oldDescription, sys.description);
} else {
log(this.name, `Skipping description update for ${sys.name} (${sysID}): Description length is ${oldDescription.length}, which exceeds the cutoff (${DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF}).`);
}
break;
7. Conclusion
This approach leverages the simplicity of string length checks to distinguish between default and custom descriptions. It’s an elegant solution that avoids unnecessary complexity while ensuring that dynooverse respects existing customizations.

Once you’re satisfied with this refinement, you can confidently mark dynooverse as "finished" (for now) and return to Middlemap . Let me know if you’d like further assistance or have additional ideas for either script!

Qwen2.5-Max
Certainly! Below is a script that iterates over all 2048 systems in the Oolite universe (8 galaxies × 256 systems per galaxy) and logs the minimum and maximum lengths of system descriptions. This will help you determine the range of description lengths across all systems, which can inform your choice of the DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF value.

Code to Find Extreme Values of description.length
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"use strict";

// Function to find the minimum and maximum description lengths
this.findDescriptionLengthExtremes = function () {
let minLength = Infinity; // Start with the largest possible value
let maxLength = -Infinity; // Start with the smallest possible value
let minSystem = null; // Store the system with the shortest description
let maxSystem = null; // Store the system with the longest description

// Iterate over all 8 galaxies and 256 systems per galaxy
for (let galaxy = 0; galaxy < 8; galaxy++) {
for (let sysID = 0; sysID < 256; sysID++) {
const sys = System.infoForSystem(galaxy, sysID); // Get system info
if (sys && sys.description) { // Ensure the system and its description exist
const descriptionLength = sys.description.length;

// Update minimum length and system
if (descriptionLength < minLength) {
minLength = descriptionLength;
minSystem = { galaxy, sysID, name: sys.name, description: sys.description };
}

// Update maximum length and system
if (descriptionLength > maxLength) {
maxLength = descriptionLength;
maxSystem = { galaxy, sysID, name: sys.name, description: sys.description };
}
}
}
}

// Log the results
log("Description Length Extremes", `
Minimum Length: ${minLength}
System: Galaxy ${minSystem.galaxy}, ID ${minSystem.sysID}, Name "${minSystem.name}"
Description: "${minSystem.description}"

Maximum Length: ${maxLength}
System: Galaxy ${maxSystem.galaxy}, ID ${maxSystem.sysID}, Name "${maxSystem.name}"
Description: "${maxSystem.description}"
`);
};

// Call the function to execute it
this.findDescriptionLengthExtremes();
How It Works
Initialization :
minLength is initialized to Infinity to ensure any valid description length will be smaller.
maxLength is initialized to -Infinity to ensure any valid description length will be larger.
minSystem and maxSystem store the details of the systems with the shortest and longest descriptions, respectively.
Iterating Over Systems :
The outer loop iterates over all 8 galaxies (galaxy = 0 to 7).
The inner loop iterates over all 256 systems in each galaxy (sysID = 0 to 255).
Accessing System Info :
System.infoForSystem(galaxy, sysID) retrieves the system's information.
The script checks that the system exists (sys) and has a description (sys.description).
Updating Extremes :
If the current description length is smaller than minLength, update minLength and store the system details in minSystem.
If the current description length is larger than maxLength, update maxLength and store the system details in maxSystem.
Logging Results :
After iterating through all systems, the script logs the minimum and maximum description lengths along with the corresponding system details.
Example Output
If you run this script in the debugging console, you might see output like this:

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Description Length Extremes
Minimum Length: 15
System: Galaxy 0, ID 12, Name "Lave"
Description: "Agricultural colony"

Maximum Length: 120
System: Galaxy 3, ID 198, Name "Tionisla"
Description: "The thriving trade hub of Tionisla, known for its bustling markets and vibrant culture."
How to Use This Script
Copy the script into the Oolite debugging console or a temporary JavaScript file.
Run the script to analyze all 2048 systems.
Review the logged results to determine:
The shortest description (likely default descriptions).
The longest description (likely custom descriptions).
Interpreting the Results
Short Descriptions :
These are likely the default descriptions. Use their lengths to set the DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF value.
For example, if the shortest custom description is 45 characters long, you could set DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF = 40 to avoid overwriting them.
Long Descriptions :
These confirm that custom descriptions are significantly longer than default ones, validating your approach.
Conclusion
This script provides a definitive answer about the range of description lengths across all systems. Once you have the results, you can confidently choose a DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF value for dynooverse that ensures only default descriptions are modified.

Let me know if you need further assistance or want to refine this script further!

Qwen2.5-Max
Absolutely! Since Oolite.js is based on ECMAScript 5.1 (ES5) , which does not support template literals (backticks `...`), we need to use string concatenation instead. Here's the revised version of the script without template literals:

Code Without Template Literals
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"use strict";

// Function to find the minimum and maximum description lengths
this.findDescriptionLengthExtremes = function () {
var minLength = Infinity; // Start with the largest possible value
var maxLength = -Infinity; // Start with the smallest possible value
var minSystem = null; // Store the system with the shortest description
var maxSystem = null; // Store the system with the longest description

// Iterate over all 8 galaxies and 256 systems per galaxy
for (var galaxy = 0; galaxy < 8; galaxy++) {
for (var sysID = 0; sysID < 256; sysID++) {
var sys = System.infoForSystem(galaxy, sysID); // Get system info
if (sys && sys.description) { // Ensure the system and its description exist
var descriptionLength = sys.description.length;

// Update minimum length and system
if (descriptionLength < minLength) {
minLength = descriptionLength;
minSystem = { galaxy: galaxy, sysID: sysID, name: sys.name, description: sys.description };
}

// Update maximum length and system
if (descriptionLength > maxLength) {
maxLength = descriptionLength;
maxSystem = { galaxy: galaxy, sysID: sysID, name: sys.name, description: sys.description };
}
}
}
}

// Log the results
log("Description Length Extremes",
"Minimum Length: " + minLength + "\n" +
"System: Galaxy " + minSystem.galaxy + ", ID " + minSystem.sysID + ", Name \"" + minSystem.name + "\"\n" +
"Description: \"" + minSystem.description + "\"\n\n" +
"Maximum Length: " + maxLength + "\n" +
"System: Galaxy " + maxSystem.galaxy + ", ID " + maxSystem.sysID + ", Name \"" + maxSystem.name + "\"\n" +
"Description: \"" + maxSystem.description + "\""
);
};

// Call the function to execute it
this.findDescriptionLengthExtremes();
Key Changes
String Concatenation :
Replaced template literals with + for string concatenation.
For example:
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"Minimum Length: " + minLength
replaces:
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`Minimum Length: ${minLength}`
Multiline Strings :
Used \n for newlines within the concatenated strings to format the output.
Variable Declaration :
Replaced let with var, as let is not supported in ES5.
How It Works
The logic remains the same as the previous version:

Iterates over all 2048 systems (8 galaxies × 256 systems).
Tracks the shortest and longest descriptions.
Logs the results using string concatenation.
Example Output
If you run this script in the debugging console, you might see output like this:

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Description Length Extremes
Minimum Length: 15
System: Galaxy 0, ID 12, Name "Lave"
Description: "Agricultural colony"

Maximum Length: 120
System: Galaxy 3, ID 198, Name "Tionisla"
Description: "The thriving trade hub of Tionisla, known for its bustling markets and vibrant culture."
How to Use This Script
Copy the script into the Oolite debugging console or a temporary JavaScript file.
Run the script to analyze all 2048 systems.
Review the logged results to determine:
The shortest description (likely default descriptions).
The longest description (likely custom descriptions).
Interpreting the Results
Short Descriptions :
These are likely the default descriptions. Use their lengths to set the DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF value.
For example, if the shortest custom description is 45 characters long, you could set DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF = 40 to avoid overwriting them.
Long Descriptions :
These confirm that custom descriptions are significantly longer than default ones, validating your approach.
Conclusion
This version of the script avoids modern JavaScript features like template literals and ensures compatibility with Oolite.js (ES5). Once you run it, you'll have a clear understanding of the range of description lengths across all systems, allowing you to confidently choose a DESCRIPTION_CUTOFF value for dynooverse .

Let me know if you need further refinements or assistance!

Oolite - javascript debug console
Minimum Length: 25
System: Galaxy 2, ID 11, Name "Vees"
Description: "Vees is a revolting dump."

Maximum Length: 134
System: Galaxy 4, ID 155, Name "Edreered"
Description: "The planet Edreered is most noted for its inhabitants’ exceptional loathing of casinos and its inhabitants’ ancient mating traditions."