Oolite Bulletins

Greetings, commanders

Would someone please be so kind as to measure for me (to 0.5mm or 0.3mm precision, if possible) the length and width of the front cover of a physical copy of the original 1984 Elite SBG38/B1 Space Trader's Flight Training Manual?

Measurements of any other versions/editions (clearly specifying which version/edition, e.g. C64, Spectrum, CPC; Apple; Acornsoft 1986, Superior Software 1986; MSX, Tatung Einstein, 1987 PC; Atari, AMIGA) would also be very welcome.

Multiple measurements of the same version/edition from different commanders would also be appreciated, for the purposes of statistical accuracy. If you see someone else has already done it, do not let that dissuade you from posting your own results, please.

I have discovered at least two different pdf versions of SBG38/B1 online, but the dimensions given in their metadata differ significantly, supposedly due to variations in scanning.

There are many lovely pictures of many different Elite manuals online, but no indication of the actual size, as far as I have been able to discover yet.

Neurodivergent much? Yes, please.

Thank you in advance for your kind cooperation and effort in this endeavour.

Kind regards, sincerely and faithfully
user

user2357 wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 5:51 am

Neurodivergent much? Yes, please.

I've got a few actual manuals which I can measure for you later: BBC, Spectrunm and C64 (???)
I'll get back to you.

Dear Commander Redspear

Thank you ever so kindly. I would appreciate any and all measurements that you might be able to spare. No rush.

Thanks again.

Kind regards
user

Never had the Elite manual, but the Elite Plus manual (which includes Imprint) is 215x190

BBC manual 210mm x 149mm (likely 150 if curvature is accounted for).

Spectrum 205mm x 144mm (likely 145 if flattened out).

C64 206mm x 145mm (poss. 146 flattened).

So the BBC version is slightly larger and sursprisingly the C64 version is a tiny bit bigger than the Spectrum version despite both being the near identical 'Firebird' versions.

Whether or not the latter point highlights a genuine difference or just manufacturing variance is unclear but FWIW, I'd guess the latter.

Hope that helps.

Redspear wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 11:30 pm

BBC manual 210mm x 149mm (likely 150 if curvature is accounted for).

No, more likely 148mm than 150mm. Specifically, A5 size.

Cody wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 1:14 pm

Never had the Elite manual, but the Elite Plus manual (which includes Imprint) is 215x190

Mucho gracias, amigo!

Redspear wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 11:30 pm

BBC manual 210mm x 149mm (likely 150 if curvature is accounted for).

Spectrum 205mm x 144mm (likely 145 if flattened out).

C64 206mm x 145mm (poss. 146 flattened).

So the BBC version is slightly larger and sursprisingly the C64 version is a tiny bit bigger than the Spectrum version despite both being the near identical 'Firebird' versions.

Whether or not the latter point highlights a genuine difference or just manufacturing variance is unclear but FWIW, I'd guess the latter.

Hope that helps.

Excellent! Thank you so much, Redspear! I really appreciate your fine attention to detail, and final analytical comparison between the various versions.

Kind regards
user

Wildeblood wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 5:23 am

Redspear wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 11:30 pm

BBC manual 210mm x 149mm (likely 150 if curvature is accounted for).

No, more likely 148mm than 150mm. Specifically, A5 size.

Aahhh... a worthy consideration indeed.

Thank you, Wildeblood.

We apparently started using metric paper sizes such as A3/A4 back in 1971, two years before Edward Heath joined the EEC. And thirteen years before Elite.

What did we use before that? Post Folio? Post Quarto?


Reference:  Paper_size

Wildeblood wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 5:23 am

Redspear wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 11:30 pm

BBC manual 210mm x 149mm (likely 150 if curvature is accounted for).

No, more likely 148mm than 150mm. Specifically, A5 size.

The one I measured was at least 149.
I measured both front and back to account for staple displacement.

So unless the ruler (not tape which could have stretched) was out then that individual copy was fractionally larger than you suggest.

Maybe (along with the Firebird examples) there was an inherant variance in manufacture.

Redspear wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 10:19 am

Wildeblood wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 5:23 am

Redspear wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 11:30 pm

BBC manual 210mm x 149mm (likely 150 if curvature is accounted for).

No, more likely 148mm than 150mm. Specifically, A5 size.

The one I measured was at least 149.
I measured both front and back to account for staple displacement.

So unless the ruler (not tape which could have stretched) was out then that individual copy was fractionally larger than you suggest.

Maybe (along with the Firebird examples) there was an inherant variance in manufacture.

Had you followed Cmdr Cholmondely's helpful link (there's an hour I'll never get back), you'd now know, as I do, that A5 is actually 148mm +/- 1.5mm. Who would imagine that an ISO specification for such an everyday, non-technical item as cut paper would include a tolerance of up to 1% variation. I was shocked.

What you have there, Redspear, is a document in the internationally standardized A5 size. If you read into my previous reply an implication that you were an imprecise measurer, please take this as a public apology. No disparagement of your measuring ability was intended.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 8:06 am

What did we use before that?

A slate and stylus.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 8:06 am

Reference:  Paper_size

Please don't do that. Some of us recovering internet addicts can resist almost anything - except a link to follow.

Wildeblood wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 11:48 am

What you have there, Redspear, is a document in the internationally standardized A5 size. If you read into my previous reply an implication that you were an imprecise measurer, please take this as a public apology. No disparagement of your measuring ability was intended.

No worries. I merely answered the original question, reported as such and suggested a manufacturing variance which we now both know exists.

A5 is of course the likely standard for the BBC manual (as Wildeblood points out) but not for the other two on account of the Firebird box being A5 rather than the manual itself. The BBC manual won't fit inside the Spectrum or C64 boxes without suffering abuse.

Redspear wrote: ↑Mon May 13, 2024 1:01 pm

A5 is of course the likely standard for the BBC manual (as Wildeblood points out) but not for the other two on account of the Firebird box being A5 rather than the manual itself. The BBC manual won't fit inside the Spectrum or C64 boxes without suffering abuse.

Back in the mid nineties, I helped a university print shop staple some A4 prints into booklets, which when folded about the staples of course became A5 plus a tad from the staple to opening edge due to fold and number of leaves.

After this, the three non-stapled booklet edges were 'tidied up' with a big hydraulic guillotine, making them flush and crisp, with the outcome a tad under A5. The guillotine in question could neatly clamp and slice a deep heap at a time.

Maybe they just cropped the edges enough to fit the box. This might also explain any variance in like manuals. Different day, different cropping operator.