Thoughts on Elite Dangerous with relevance to Oolite
Posted: Wed Feb 21, 2024 12:45 am
Maybe this belongs in 'Outworld', maybe it doesn't...
Having recently given Elite Dangerous a try there were a few things that struck me and may be of interest to others.
Please note that the following is based on limited playtime of ED and of course represents my own point of view FWIW rather than anything authoritative. As such it may in fact be a load of bunk but here goes...
It really plays like a simulator
The Bad:
Simulators can be games too of course but there is a level of not only realism but also detail (not necessarily the same thing) that is immediately apparent. For example, flying any considerable distance within a system feels like a logistical exercise or some sort of (fairly dull) mini-game.
When you finally arrive at your destination it often 'pops' into existence at fairly short range. Imagine not just suddenly arriving at the station aegis in oolite but rather at the station buoy. Maybe it saves time after the rather tedious travel in the first place but my frst impression was that it was rather unsatisfying.
The Good:
Each to their own of course but where I will commend it is for it's consistency. Personally I think a lack of consistency is much more of an immesion-breaker than a lack of realism; furthermore, it's also harder to fake than realism is.
So yeah, flying is logistical but then so is ship outfitting and so is planetary mechanics (or at least, as far as I could tell). The consistency means I can potentially warm to the idea, or at least not be frustrated when I'm in the mood for an exercise in detail and parts of the game aren't detailed at all (or vice versa).
Relevance to Oolite:
While oxp allows the individual to head in whichever direction they like in this regard, oolite is poorly positioned to compete or even represent in terms of realism. Personally, I think a 'lower resolution' suits oolite much better and despite the confusingly diverse number of options available re oxp choice there is increasingly the option for well curated selections of complimentary oxps.
Perhaps I'll take up Cholmondely's suggestion to put together an oxp selection of complimentary themed oxps rather than just recommended ones. I'm under no illusion that such a thing would be to everyone's taste of course but rather that such a thing could be useful and might be an idea for more authors to do similar.
The progression path is potentially huge
The Good:
You start in a lowly ship, poorly equipped and not much good for anything in particular but then it really is easy to start making credits. Danger ratings for missions and even a little choice in the nature of your rewards for completing them.
A safe path to some basic quipment upgrades (or even a ship upgrade) is soon within reach and the game doesn't seem to suffer for it as there is still so much on offer in both options and challenge.
The Bad:
There are so many stepping stones that unless you deliberately miss some of them then they don't seem very significant. Upgrade your power plant in ED and stuff works a bit more often but buy an extra energy unit in oolite and your ship seems revitalised.
I suppose engineering might exist to address this issue (that most upgrades are relatively uneventful) but then it does rather encourage a race to get to what many youtube commentators consider to be one of the most frustrating parts of the game.
Relevance to Oolite:
If oolite wasn't so tough for beginners then we could perhaps recommend starting in a much weaker ship than the mk III. A word of caution here would be that perhaps doesn't suit a situation where an adder can equip itself as well as the aforementioned cobra. Whilst there are already some rather complex (ED like) solutions to this issue, I think simple is best, certainly in terms of anything that is to be considered 'core' or even 'reccommended'.
OXPs are generally well placed to add complexity rather than to remove it IMHO. By which I mean generally keep the complexity optional and away from the default game.
A genuinely massive MMO
The Bad:
Being an MMO, it has community events rather than special missions. In some ways it's nce to feel like you're a small part of a much bigger world but then it's also nice to feel that you have the chance to play the hero. In oolite you can do that, you can be the savior, just once in a while but in ED it's more like you're contributing to the background simulation. More realistic no doubt but also, I would argue, less fun.
Because you're nothing special (no offence commander) then regular players (i.e. the ones you're most likely to meet) often tend to have the better ships. So early on you can expect to find multiple fleet carriers in systems, lots of powerful ships flying around and fewer weak ones. This is where it really breaks down for me as that doesn't seem very intuitive at all.
Shouldn't a non-player-centic universe with challenge be full of weak or even average ships, struggling to survive, with just a few able to make it to the very top? Realistic but not much fun in an MMO unless you're one of those willing to put you're whole life into it (not recommended).
I would aspire to be one of the 'elite', to feel in someway either special or blessed to have reached my eventual lofty status but this is an MMO, soon enough nearly everyone is 'elite'. You can either make it genuinely special and therefore extremely tough, or, not so special and therefore relatively easy. With a single player game it doesn't have to be tough to be special: the solitary player is already special and is the only one truly scrambling to get to the top of the mountain, so the ascent feels genuinely special rather than just like a race.
The Good:
Although there is much gnashing of teeth by some re 'the grind' that is often required to achieve something within the game, in some ways this is dependant upon approach. It seems that many are encouragesd to think something like, 'right, I want a corvette', or, 'I want a grade X thingamy-jig' and go for that rather than anything along the way. So when you get the drop ship but you wanted the corvette you're stil busy grinding rather than enjoying the drop ship.
This relates in part to the stepping stone issue that I mentioned above I think, especially if the player has (understandably) already upgraded their ship to something superior to the drop ship that likely wasn't locked behind a naval ranking system in the first place.
There's lots of gameplay to be had but the tendency to 'achievement hunt' is perhaps not the way I'd recommend to enjoy it.
Relevance to Oolite:
Despite the wishes of some oolite isn't an MMO and I would argue that the current state of affairs has its advantages. I think it's nice to feel special in a universe that doesn't appear to treat you as such because then there is both a real sense of acheivement and also of danger.
This is however a game. If I were required to spend an amount of time approaching what might be considered realistic in order to acheive anything significant then it might be well worth asking , 'just what the hell am I doing with my life?' I don't want that for myself and what's more dear reader, I don't want it for you either, whoever you are.
By all means fake non-player-centricity but I don't think we need to demonise player-centricity in order to do that. I've justified the torus drive before and even the energy bomb. No one has to agree with me but there are arguments to be made for both of those things that aren't easily dismissed (or at least no one on these boards has as yet done so to the best of my knowledge). That's not a boast, rather it's a point and just maybe, I might actually have one.
IIRC David Braben opined back in ED's kickstarter days that playability needn't be at the expense of realism. It can be though and I think that oolite currently has some inbuilt restrictions with regards to the latter. I'd be wary of increasing realism too far in any one regard so as not to risk appearing inconsistent (as explained above).
Oolite is, at least partially, player-centric and that's nothing to be ashamed of IMHO. Maybe if it was even embraced a little more as such then it could even be to our advantage.
Having recently given Elite Dangerous a try there were a few things that struck me and may be of interest to others.
Please note that the following is based on limited playtime of ED and of course represents my own point of view FWIW rather than anything authoritative. As such it may in fact be a load of bunk but here goes...
It really plays like a simulator
The Bad:
Simulators can be games too of course but there is a level of not only realism but also detail (not necessarily the same thing) that is immediately apparent. For example, flying any considerable distance within a system feels like a logistical exercise or some sort of (fairly dull) mini-game.
When you finally arrive at your destination it often 'pops' into existence at fairly short range. Imagine not just suddenly arriving at the station aegis in oolite but rather at the station buoy. Maybe it saves time after the rather tedious travel in the first place but my frst impression was that it was rather unsatisfying.
The Good:
Each to their own of course but where I will commend it is for it's consistency. Personally I think a lack of consistency is much more of an immesion-breaker than a lack of realism; furthermore, it's also harder to fake than realism is.
So yeah, flying is logistical but then so is ship outfitting and so is planetary mechanics (or at least, as far as I could tell). The consistency means I can potentially warm to the idea, or at least not be frustrated when I'm in the mood for an exercise in detail and parts of the game aren't detailed at all (or vice versa).
Relevance to Oolite:
While oxp allows the individual to head in whichever direction they like in this regard, oolite is poorly positioned to compete or even represent in terms of realism. Personally, I think a 'lower resolution' suits oolite much better and despite the confusingly diverse number of options available re oxp choice there is increasingly the option for well curated selections of complimentary oxps.
Perhaps I'll take up Cholmondely's suggestion to put together an oxp selection of complimentary themed oxps rather than just recommended ones. I'm under no illusion that such a thing would be to everyone's taste of course but rather that such a thing could be useful and might be an idea for more authors to do similar.
The progression path is potentially huge
The Good:
You start in a lowly ship, poorly equipped and not much good for anything in particular but then it really is easy to start making credits. Danger ratings for missions and even a little choice in the nature of your rewards for completing them.
A safe path to some basic quipment upgrades (or even a ship upgrade) is soon within reach and the game doesn't seem to suffer for it as there is still so much on offer in both options and challenge.
The Bad:
There are so many stepping stones that unless you deliberately miss some of them then they don't seem very significant. Upgrade your power plant in ED and stuff works a bit more often but buy an extra energy unit in oolite and your ship seems revitalised.
I suppose engineering might exist to address this issue (that most upgrades are relatively uneventful) but then it does rather encourage a race to get to what many youtube commentators consider to be one of the most frustrating parts of the game.
Relevance to Oolite:
If oolite wasn't so tough for beginners then we could perhaps recommend starting in a much weaker ship than the mk III. A word of caution here would be that perhaps doesn't suit a situation where an adder can equip itself as well as the aforementioned cobra. Whilst there are already some rather complex (ED like) solutions to this issue, I think simple is best, certainly in terms of anything that is to be considered 'core' or even 'reccommended'.
OXPs are generally well placed to add complexity rather than to remove it IMHO. By which I mean generally keep the complexity optional and away from the default game.
A genuinely massive MMO
The Bad:
Being an MMO, it has community events rather than special missions. In some ways it's nce to feel like you're a small part of a much bigger world but then it's also nice to feel that you have the chance to play the hero. In oolite you can do that, you can be the savior, just once in a while but in ED it's more like you're contributing to the background simulation. More realistic no doubt but also, I would argue, less fun.
Because you're nothing special (no offence commander) then regular players (i.e. the ones you're most likely to meet) often tend to have the better ships. So early on you can expect to find multiple fleet carriers in systems, lots of powerful ships flying around and fewer weak ones. This is where it really breaks down for me as that doesn't seem very intuitive at all.
Shouldn't a non-player-centic universe with challenge be full of weak or even average ships, struggling to survive, with just a few able to make it to the very top? Realistic but not much fun in an MMO unless you're one of those willing to put you're whole life into it (not recommended).
I would aspire to be one of the 'elite', to feel in someway either special or blessed to have reached my eventual lofty status but this is an MMO, soon enough nearly everyone is 'elite'. You can either make it genuinely special and therefore extremely tough, or, not so special and therefore relatively easy. With a single player game it doesn't have to be tough to be special: the solitary player is already special and is the only one truly scrambling to get to the top of the mountain, so the ascent feels genuinely special rather than just like a race.
The Good:
Although there is much gnashing of teeth by some re 'the grind' that is often required to achieve something within the game, in some ways this is dependant upon approach. It seems that many are encouragesd to think something like, 'right, I want a corvette', or, 'I want a grade X thingamy-jig' and go for that rather than anything along the way. So when you get the drop ship but you wanted the corvette you're stil busy grinding rather than enjoying the drop ship.
This relates in part to the stepping stone issue that I mentioned above I think, especially if the player has (understandably) already upgraded their ship to something superior to the drop ship that likely wasn't locked behind a naval ranking system in the first place.
There's lots of gameplay to be had but the tendency to 'achievement hunt' is perhaps not the way I'd recommend to enjoy it.
Relevance to Oolite:
Despite the wishes of some oolite isn't an MMO and I would argue that the current state of affairs has its advantages. I think it's nice to feel special in a universe that doesn't appear to treat you as such because then there is both a real sense of acheivement and also of danger.
This is however a game. If I were required to spend an amount of time approaching what might be considered realistic in order to acheive anything significant then it might be well worth asking , 'just what the hell am I doing with my life?' I don't want that for myself and what's more dear reader, I don't want it for you either, whoever you are.
By all means fake non-player-centricity but I don't think we need to demonise player-centricity in order to do that. I've justified the torus drive before and even the energy bomb. No one has to agree with me but there are arguments to be made for both of those things that aren't easily dismissed (or at least no one on these boards has as yet done so to the best of my knowledge). That's not a boast, rather it's a point and just maybe, I might actually have one.
IIRC David Braben opined back in ED's kickstarter days that playability needn't be at the expense of realism. It can be though and I think that oolite currently has some inbuilt restrictions with regards to the latter. I'd be wary of increasing realism too far in any one regard so as not to risk appearing inconsistent (as explained above).
Oolite is, at least partially, player-centric and that's nothing to be ashamed of IMHO. Maybe if it was even embraced a little more as such then it could even be to our advantage.
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