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T.Flight Hotas X: Weird random issue

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:28 pm
by Cas Tell
In my post "My experience w/ T.Flight Hotas X" I didn't mention an issue which I had experienced only once, but after posting I had a longer Oolite session in which exactly this issue occurred for the second time. So, I'd like to describe this and hope that some type of Scottie is around here to give a hint :D

First of all, I like to couple the thrust lever's rocker with the z-axis of the stick, such as to yaw using either the rocker or the stick. To do this, one has to press the Home Button of the T.Flight to lit up red. Maybe this has some relation to the problem.

Description: I approach the docking station, wait in front of the buoy, get my clearance and accelerate. Exactly when I push the thrust lever forward, the station wanders to the right of the center, even accelerating, too, so that I can't even keep up! It is impossible to reach the station, when this misinterpretation of joystick signals has set in. And it sometimes does so, although the whole journey before took place without any steering problems whatsoever.

In other words, it seems as if the accelerate command from the stick suddenly became interpreted as a yaw to the left.

All my attempts to reset the stick while the game is running or paused fail. There's no escape but exiting Oolite and start from scratch, in this case everything's fine again. There's also no way to control speed with the keyboard using w and s, these keys simply don't work when I use the T.Flight. Strangely, ; and . work. Hm...

This is no showstopper by every means, but a silly, strange malfunction which destroys the journey in the last moment. The only thing I haven't tried yet is, to pause the game, switch from PC to PS2 and back. Maybe this helps? I don't know. But of course, it would be appreciated to find out more about the reason. It could be some kind of driver problem on the OS level between hardware and Oolite. I have no clue.

Re: T.Flight Hotas X: Weird random issue

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:02 pm
by Cholmondely
Cas Tell wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 5:28 pm
In my post "My experience w/ T.Flight Hotas X" I didn't mention an issue which I had experienced only once, but after posting I had a longer Oolite session in which exactly this issue occurred for the second time. So, I'd like to describe this and hope that some type of Scottie is around here to give a hint :D

First of all, I like to couple the thrust lever's rocker with the z-axis of the stick, such as to yaw using either the rocker or the stick. To do this, one has to press the Home Button of the T.Flight to lit up red. Maybe this has some relation to the problem.

Description: I approach the docking station, wait in front of the buoy, get my clearance and accelerate. Exactly when I push the thrust lever forward, the station wanders to the right of the center, even accelerating, too, so that I can't even keep up! It is impossible to reach the station, when this misinterpretation of joystick signals has set in. And it sometimes does so, although the whole journey before took place without any steering problems whatsoever.

In other words, it seems as if the accelerate command from the stick suddenly became interpreted as a yaw to the left.

All my attempts to reset the stick while the game is running or paused fail. There's no escape but exiting Oolite and start from scratch, in this case everything's fine again. There's also no way to control speed with the keyboard using w and s, these keys simply don't work when I use the T.Flight. Strangely, ; and . work. Hm...

This is no showstopper by every means, but a silly, strange malfunction which destroys the journey in the last moment. The only thing I haven't tried yet is, to pause the game, switch from PC to PS2 and back. Maybe this helps? I don't know. But of course, it would be appreciated to find out more about the reason. It could be some kind of driver problem on the OS level between hardware and Oolite. I have no clue.
Sorry. No idea. I never had this issue with mine. I presume that it is not a mechanical fault of some sort.

Do you have the same problem with other games?

Re: T.Flight Hotas X: Weird random issue

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:31 pm
by Nite Owl
My Windows based joystick has a slight drift to the left. It is usually overcome by a few simple yet hard twists of the stick while the game is paused. Occasionally this drift does become quite severe. When this happens the game gets paused, the joystick is removed from its USB port, and then reinserted into the USB port. This usually cures the problem but not always. My guess is it is akin to rebooting the joystick. You might also try calibrating your setup before every game session even though that can be more than a bit of a bother. Not sure if this would work within a Linux setup but it might be worth a try.

Re: T.Flight Hotas X: Weird random issue

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 10:54 pm
by Cas Tell
Cholmondely wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 6:02 pm
Sorry. No idea. I never had this issue with mine. I presume that it is not a mechanical fault of some sort.

Do you have the same problem with other games?
No, since I don't play other games :D (except Xsok using the keyboard :)). But maybe I download some random space-shooter to do more testing.
I'm with you, in so far as I don't assume a mechanical problem. The issue occurs all of a sudden, and it starts, when the ship stood still for a while, i.e. the thrust lever was in stop position.

Re: T.Flight Hotas X: Weird random issue

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:01 pm
by Cas Tell
Nite Owl wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:31 pm
My Windows based joystick has a slight drift to the left. It is usually overcome by a few simple yet hard twists of the stick while the game is paused. Occasionally this drift does become quite severe. When this happens the game gets paused, the joystick is removed from its USB port, and then reinserted into the USB port. This usually cures the problem but not always. My guess is it is akin to rebooting the joystick. You might also try calibrating your setup before every game session even though that can be more than a bit of a bother. Not sure if this would work within a Linux setup but it might be worth a try.
Well, it is not a drift! The docking station wanders away to the right hand side the faster, the more I speed the ship up. So, there's a direct relation between the movement of the thrust lever and the speed by which the docking station flies away...

Rebooting the stick somehow was exactly what I tried by disconnecting the stick while the game was still running (paused or not). Problem is, it doesn't help at all.

I'm more and more thinking that it is some communication problem in the chain controller->-OS->-Oolite. And that it's happening only rarely makes investigations more complicated. But thanks for your thoughts, commanders 8) !

Re: T.Flight Hotas X: Weird random issue

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:17 pm
by hiran
Despite not mentioned in the thread, the fact that it pops up in Linux makes me think...
Has anyone pointed you towards this page? https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Linux ... d_Gamepads
It looks biased for the gamepad right now, but we simply need to document more cases to make it more useful.

Hint for you: Can you pinpoint the problem to be with your combination Joystick/OS/driver/Oolite?
What happens if you switch the components (different joystick, different OS, different driver, different game)? Does the problem reoccur or go away? I which of the combinations?

I can only talk for the MS Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 and the CH Pedals, which run marvellous on Ubuntu 22 and act as two simple joysticks. The joystick is even supported by the force feedback driver, but Oolite does not support that. It might be nice to 'feel' collisions on the joystick, or to feel what side a laser is damaging your ship. A damaged ship might get more difficult to control as the center point is off or you'd have to overcome some permanent distracting force.
But all this is theoretical as my overly preferred joystick is the many buttons on the keyboard.

Re: T.Flight Hotas X: Weird random issue

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 12:28 am
by Cholmondely
hiran wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 11:17 pm
Despite not mentioned in the thread, the fact that it pops up in Linux makes me think...
Has anyone pointed you towards this page? https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Linux ... d_Gamepads
It looks biased for the gamepad right now, but we simply need to document more cases to make it more useful.

Hint for you: Can you pinpoint the problem to be with your combination Joystick/OS/driver/Oolite?
What happens if you switch the components (different joystick, different OS, different driver, different game)? Does the problem reoccur or go away? I which of the combinations?

I can only talk for the MS Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 and the CH Pedals, which run marvellous on Ubuntu 22 and act as two simple joysticks. The joystick is even supported by the force feedback driver, but Oolite does not support that. It might be nice to 'feel' collisions on the joystick, or to feel what side a laser is damaging your ship. A damaged ship might get more difficult to control as the center point is off or you'd have to overcome some permanent distracting force.
But all this is theoretical as my overly preferred joystick is the many buttons on the keyboard.
No idea about this sort of thing. But I did bump into this: https://sourceforge.net/projects/ffjoystick4java/

Re: T.Flight Hotas X: Weird random issue

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:00 am
by hiran
Cholmondely wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 12:28 am
No idea about this sort of thing. But I did bump into this: https://sourceforge.net/projects/ffjoystick4java/
I think this was amongst the stuff I tried to make it work for me. The project had it's last update 10 years ago, the last blog post is even 15 years old. There is almost no chance to make it work on a current system.