External Docking

[phkb]

So there should be a hefty docking fee

100cr sound about right?

That's if you can dock with a Cobra Mk.3!

The standard Boa and Boa Class Cruiser have some sort of door on the rear of the ship, which could be construed as a docking port.

But regardless, should I really restrict access to the external docks for all the standard ships? I mean, the Cobra MKIII is the size of a 747.

We will probably need a more suitable BGS docking sequence.

If I disable the BGS docking sequence, you'll get the default game docking sequence. We *might* be able to have a slightly different BGS one to the you get in the normal dock, and would therefore be able to change it's shape, but something will still play regardless.

We're not flying through a tunnel as with interior docking.

Unfortunately, Oolite only supports the one type of docking, always assuming you are flying through a tunnel. And I can't get around that, as there is no other way to dock the player.

Is it possible to modify things so that one is "doing" the docking through the port or starboard Viewscreens?

Well, probably, but I'm not sure we need to. Couldn't we assume that these external docking ports have some sort of tractor technology that can move the ship into the right position? That way, all you have to do is approach the dock "globe" and when you're close enough, the technology takes over.

The alignment (to my mind) should be crucial. Ideally the alignment flashers should help on the approach (probably a lot of work to manage this), flying forwards to be beside the dock. Then using side thrusters to edge the ship slowly sideways towards the dock.

OK, now we're talking about completely rejigging the flight mechanics. That would be a *huge* change, requiring additional equipment to be installed (up/down/left/right/reverse thrusters) with extra buttons to press that aren't the normal ones. While I appreciate the "sideways" dock method might be super immersive, I'm not sure how you could smoothly transition from one set of flight controls to another.

This is more relevant for the Nuit. Those long spindly arms. It would take time to onload/offload - getting things through those arms into the main body of the station itself. Especially liner passengers who would want to gawk at the goodies in the station lobbys.

Assuming that the arms could manage simultaneous movement in both directions, my cargo could be unloaded into the strut pretty quickly and I could get credited for it. But if I buy anything, it has to come from the main hub all the way down the struts to my ship. It will take forever!

And, all the time, I'm paying more and more in order to occupy that external dock all by myself!

So, two things here: (1) Additional fees based on time occupied, and (2) Additional time based on cargo shuffled. Both are possible, but it's getting hard to communicate all this to the player *before* they dock!

Limbo's Rock Hermit

Which OXP is that?

[phkb]

Re: Alignment and standard ships
In thinking about it a bit more, I think it actually makes more sense to dock them flat, ie as if the dock was the ground.

For example:
Tail in on left, flat on right


Boa is not probably the best choice to demonstrate this, because it's underside is angled quite sharply. But hopefully you get the idea.

[Switeck]

We're not flying through a tunnel as with interior docking.

Unfortunately, Oolite only supports the one type of docking, always assuming you are flying through a tunnel. And I can't get around that, as there is no other way to dock the player.

Not to directly contradict your point, but graphically Superhub looks like the player is docking with nothing, it just "grabs" you when you reach that spot.

[phkb]

What I meant was, once the docking process starts, it looks like a tunnel, both in the base game and with BGS installed.

[Cholmondely]

Goodness! I wasn't expecting all this!!

So there should be a hefty docking fee

100cr sound about right?

I'm not sure about this one.

Nuit would expect to make a lot of money from these docks - horrendously massive ships docking (=> expensive!) with either lots of cargo or lots of wealthy liner passengers coming aboard to spend money. If they have 4 cobras docked with 4 emerald liners sitting out waiting to dock they will be losing money. They will want to give the Emeralds preference. And 100₢ is slightly more than the average price of 1TC of luxuries. A mere quarter the price of a pulse laser.

But they will also presumably know that the Emeralds are in the solar system (or am I being optimistic?). If they do, they will keep the 4 empty slots for the 4 emeralds. If there are only three Emeralds then they will happily rent out the fourth. And if a 4th emerges from hyperspace they will then ask me to move my Cobra.

If I understand correctly, London Heathrow airport charges £20/passenger for either landing or departing (passenger handling/luggage handling/security checks etc.) + £200/hour (parking) - unsure if this is £200/hour or £200/passenger seat/hour
or in credits 0.1₢/passenger (for both landing and then departing later) + 0.25₢/hour. Emeralds carry 20-30,000 passengers? ie 2,000₢ - 3,000₢ for the passengers.

So maybe 125₢/hour would be better? 100₢ sounds too "gamey" to me. Heathrow's charges are more complex (£20.21/passenger, peak vs. off-peak, wide-bodied planes vs narrow-bodied, etc.) And I'm unsure about the parking charges - are they for being parked at the terminal itself or at a parking bay elsewhere in the airport?


References:
BBC news report on Heathrow charges
Heathrow Airport's proposed charges (2021) - download
₢ <> £/$/A$ exchange rate
Emerald Liners

I would think that it might be easier (for the Nuit - not Limbo's RH) to just forbid docking to small ships!

That's if you can dock with a Cobra Mk.3!

The standard Boa and Boa Class Cruiser have some sort of door on the rear of the ship, which could be construed as a docking port.

But regardless, should I really restrict access to the external docks for all the standard ships? I mean, the Cobra MKIII is the size of a 747.

We will probably need a more suitable BGS docking sequence.

If I disable the BGS docking sequence, you'll get the default game docking sequence. We *might* be able to have a slightly different BGS one to the you get in the normal dock, and would therefore be able to change it's shape, but something will still play regardless.

We're not flying through a tunnel as with interior docking.

Unfortunately, Oolite only supports the one type of docking, always assuming you are flying through a tunnel. And I can't get around that, as there is no other way to dock the player.

Is it possible to modify things so that one is "doing" the docking through the port or starboard Viewscreens?

Well, probably, but I'm not sure we need to. Couldn't we assume that these external docking ports have some sort of tractor technology that can move the ship into the right position? That way, all you have to do is approach the dock "globe" and when you're close enough, the technology takes over.

The alignment (to my mind) should be crucial. Ideally the alignment flashers should help on the approach (probably a lot of work to manage this), flying forwards to be beside the dock. Then using side thrusters to edge the ship slowly sideways towards the dock.

OK, now we're talking about completely rejigging the flight mechanics. That would be a *huge* change, requiring additional equipment to be installed (up/down/left/right/reverse thrusters) with extra buttons to press that aren't the normal ones. While I appreciate the "sideways" dock method might be super immersive, I'm not sure how you could smoothly transition from one set of flight controls to another.

I would guess that this one could be left for the future as an option. If KW and Griff suddenly decide to deluge us with a dozen new stations each featuring External Docking, then it may be worth revisiting!

So what do you think on the equipment front? Does one need the vanilla game Docking Computer to dock - or to buy an AddOn to it? Or use ILS?

This is more relevant for the Nuit. Those long spindly arms. It would take time to onload/offload - getting things through those arms into the main body of the station itself. Especially liner passengers who would want to gawk at the goodies in the station lobbys.

Assuming that the arms could manage simultaneous movement in both directions, my cargo could be unloaded into the strut pretty quickly and I could get credited for it. But if I buy anything, it has to come from the main hub all the way down the struts to my ship. It will take forever!

And, all the time, I'm paying more and more in order to occupy that external dock all by myself!

So, two things here: (1) Additional fees based on time occupied, and (2) Additional time based on cargo shuffled. Both are possible, but it's getting hard to communicate all this to the player *before* they dock!

At Heathrow all this stuff must be worked out by the airline well in advance to book the docking slots and the parking bays (lots of competition for those things). You can't just fly a Boeing 747 to the airport and expect to land!

Might it not make sense to try and capture this complexity in Oolite? Maybe a mission screen with the T's & C's?

Welcome to <Galactic Almanac name> Nuit!

We are delighted to accommodate you at Strut #3 which will be free for the next (random 2-13) hours.

Our charges are a flat (random 95-145)₢/hour.

Under CorCom regulation #3749b we must inform you that bought cargo will take 45-65 minutes to reach your strut from the station commodity markets. Transport to the main station reception halls will take 25-35 minutes each way.

For details of illegal commodities please consult your F7 system information screen where the appropriate details will have been uploaded.

All docking is performed under the terms of GalCop Regulations #2465 & #4891.

<name> External Docking Superintendant

Limbo's Rock Hermit

Which OXP is that?

Not an OXP. Just Limbo's perceptive comments when I was generating oodles of guff about handling RHs in the LitF thread. But I did find one or two models in SolCommand for them (SSC Mining Outpost ++).

[Cholmondely]

Might there be some way to reduce the diameter of the BGS tunnel to make it more similar to the inside of a Nuit strut?

[phkb]

Might there be some way to reduce the diameter of the BGS tunnel to make it more similar to the inside of a Nuit strut?

I think all we can do is change the shape.

Anyway, here's a preliminary set of OXP's to play with.

FIrst: ExternalDockingSystem.oxz

That OXP won't do anything on it's own. A station needs to make use of it. And so...

Second: Nuit_Station_2.0.oxz

This updated Nuit Station will set up each of the external ports as valid docking locations. Additionally, there could also be docked ships at some of the ports, so those won't be available. If you have the Liners OXP installed, the docked ships will be liners. If you don't, I've currently only coded an Anaconda and a Boa Class Cruiser as possible docked ships - I may add to that in future. The station should tell you which ports are available as you approach, and the ports now have visible numbers to match.

I'm not guaranteeing anything with these OXP's. I haven't tested for all the possible interactions with other OXP's, so expect things to go "bang". But let me know if you encounter anything unexpected. I also haven't completely nailed down the interface spec for EDS, so don't go nuts with that yet. Once I'm more comfortable with the state of the code, I'll create a separate thread for it.

[Griff]

keep reading this topic title as "Eternal Docking" and imagining having to listen to The Blue Danube for ever

[Cholmondely]

keep reading this topic title as "Eternal Docking" and imagining having to listen to The Blue Danube for ever

We're not supposed to listen to it... we're supposed to waltz to it!

[Cholmondely]

Here's a preliminary set of OXP's to play with.

FIrst: ExternalDockingSystem.oxz

That OXP won't do anything on it's own. A station needs to make use of it. And so...

Second: Nuit_Station_2.0.oxz

This updated Nuit Station will set up each of the external ports as valid docking locations. Additionally, there could also be docked ships at some of the ports, so those won't be available. If you have the Liners OXP installed, the docked ships will be liners. If you don't, I've currently only coded an Anaconda and a Boa Class Cruiser as possible docked ships - I may add to that in future. The station should tell you which ports are available as you approach, and the ports now have visible numbers to match.

I'm not guaranteeing anything with these OXP's. I haven't tested for all the possible interactions with other OXP's, so expect things to go "bang". But let me know if you encounter anything unexpected. I also haven't completely nailed down the interface spec for EDS, so don't go nuts with that yet. Once I'm more comfortable with the state of the code, I'll create a separate thread for it.

Great! Thank you!! Downloading now!

Might there be some way to reduce the diameter of the BGS tunnel to make it more similar to the inside of a Nuit strut?

I think all we can do is change the shape.

What about creating a neutral buffer margin around the pictorial bit of the texture? Adding it to the right-hand side?
Or does the texture repeat? The third picture implies not, but what would I know?





Reference: https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/BGS2_Doc (shows these pretty pictures - and I've added in others since...)

[Cholmondely]

Just tried it out with my usual cocktail of oxp's (370 at the moment).

No conflicts yet. No problems in the latest.log

I had two stabs at docking: the first with a tester which Cody gave to me (found a Nuit at Tianve. Docked twice. First time without Docking Clearance (because it was telling me to wait for another docker at the internal dock, and I presumed I didn't need clearance for the external dock: wrong!), second time with clearance.

Then with the Imperial Star Destroyer which Hiran bamboozled me into trying out 2 years ago (the "Might of Digebiti" - enough to give anybody seeing it a major attack of the galloping heeby-jeebies).

When I tried to dock that
(i) the perspectives seemed a tad off for the external views.
And (ii) as expected, the shuttle launched instead and then got lost flying around in ever decreasing circles in a state of blue funk! The ISD experiment is rather irrelevant for this, since you Admirals much prefer to travel by Bemearean walnut-wood lined naval pinnaces sipping your pink gins served by naval attaches wearing white gloves and would never deign to travel through those vulgar pylons connecting the Nuit's external docks to the station itself!


Interim conclusions

So there is some possible confusion regarding docking protocol which might need sorting out.

I frankly don't see the ISD shuttle as worth bothering with. For me, it's not an Oolite ship. I know that Montana05 has been working on some sort of a Star Wars scenario for Oolite (star_wars_remake.OXP). It may end up being an issue for him, but (i) he's currently lost in the Devil's Triangle and (ii) probably well capable of sorting out the issue himself.

But I'm going to include it in my current play-testing of DGill's Feudal States and I'll see what transpires!

[phkb]

Alright, new versions a-plenty.

ExternalDockingSystem.oxz (v1.1)

Nuit_Station_2.0.oxz (v2.1)

Plus, something new:

SpaceBarFaceLift.oxz (v1.1)

The space bar was in need of a bit of a refresh, and it also has an external docking port as part of the model. And now, you can dock through it.



Based on what is in the model, it looks like ships that dock through the external port are transported inside the station, along the short runway and then through the closed gate, so I've implemented that method in this case.

The facelift updates the station to use the default Oolite shaders, adds a new rock texture, adds normal and specular maps, and bumps up the resolution of the station in general. I also tweaked the emission map, to give the lights a real glow effect. Finally, I added some flashers to the standard dock, to help players find their way in.

I think everything is working now for standard ships. If I'm feeling adventurous tomorrow (or later today actually) I'll see what can be dock for big player ships docking at external ports.

Edit: small update to the Space Bar Face lift to v1.1