Oolite Bulletins

apologies... will be a longish post because decisions must be made.

joysticks. i use an aging, wearing logitech 3d pro. it drifts on the pitch foward despite maximum deadzone.

i have searched the forum but most posts are 4-6 years old and describe 'sticks that are no longer purchasable
so i am looking at possible upgrade.

1. does anyone use HOTAS? is it worthwhile?
2. are there any hotas combinations that are not supported. or give trouble being recognised and/or configured?
3. i only play Oolite although that raises another question.. is Elite: dangerous any fun? are there any spacecombat games that are any fun. i realise that Oolite is not a sim... and have some concerns about 6DoF taking the simple joy out of playing.
4. i have been given permission to purchase a Thrustmaster Warthog but think that spending the equivelant of a beachside holiday on a gaming peripheral may be a bit of overkill... BUT.. Hall Sensors! (and Warthog!) there are cheaper hotas alternitaves .. do they rate. other stick without hotas have hall.sensors (or propriertry equivelant) but hotas brings more buttons, and i do like buttons.

any help from experienced and learned Commanders would be wonderful. thankyou for reading my novella

limbo

limbo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:17 pm

i use an aging, wearing logitech 3d pro.

I'm on my second 3D Pro, and they still seem to be available on Amazon (UK).

limbo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:17 pm

apologies... will be a longish post because decisions must be made.

joysticks. i use an aging, wearing logitech 3d pro. it drifts on the pitch forward despite maximum deadzone.

i have searched the forum but most posts are 4-6 years old and describe 'sticks that are no longer purchasable
so i am looking at possible upgrade.

1. does anyone use HOTAS? is it worthwhile?
2. are there any hotas combinations that are not supported. or give trouble being recognised and/or configured?
3. i only play Oolite although that raises another question.. is Elite: dangerous any fun? are there any spacecombat games that are any fun. i realise that Oolite is not a sim... and have some concerns about 6DoF taking the simple joy out of playing.
4. i have been given permission to purchase a Thrustmaster Warthog but think that spending the equivelant of a beachside holiday on a gaming peripheral may be a bit of overkill... BUT.. Hall Sensors! (and Warthog!) there are cheaper hotas alternitaves .. do they rate. other stick without hotas have hall.sensors (or propriertry equivelant) but hotas brings more buttons, and i do like buttons.

any help from experienced and learned Commanders would be wonderful. thankyou for reading my novella

limbo

So. I too love buttons.

I've an AppleMac, and needless to say, hardly anything in the world of HOTAS works on it! The problems with Oolite seem to me to be more about AppleMac/Linux platforms than Oolite itself (eg the moment programming capabilities are added by the better HOTAS's, the AppleMac starts having a major attack of indigestion). Most of these HOTAS's seem not to last. Thrustmaster TM4 went wonky after several months. CH is supposed to last forever, but has no hall sensors and might be a tad too large for one's hands. Lots of buttons, though.

Have you seen these wiki pages?
•Joysticks and Gamepads
•Joysticks: Guide to Setting Up
•Buttonboxes

Arquebus X had problems making the throttle of his Logitech G X56 HOTAS work with Oolite, but he managed a bodge job.

Back to my AppleMac. It's a smallish desktop with a really good (smallish) screen. Basically, plugging in the HOTAS is a pain (AppleMac Issues + being a laptop), so I do so rarely. I much prefer playing with the HOTAS, but usually can't be bothered. But, yes, it is very worthwhile. And the throttle really makes a big difference to the game immersion for me. The Thrustmaster has few buttons - but feels very good.

Is there any way that you can try things out before buying? Borrow a friends' HOTAS? Bring your laptop (if that's what you play on) into the shop?

thankyou for your reply.

i have seen the wiki pages, (and am about to review them again) just interested in other folks opinions
i play on a PC. unfortunately dont have a laptop... but most shops dont like to unbox if you arent buying. there is a largish computer shop near here that i will be going to in the near future and they *may* have some on display.
the issue with the joystick, any joystick, wearing out seems to be a common complaint in most reviews where the blogger has time to use the product for a while. this is an issue with any niche product (/old man's rant)
i have limited movement in my left arm... so havent really considered button boxes... but perhaps something could be worked out and i shall be taking another look at the idea.

limbo wrote: ↑Sun Dec 11, 2022 11:06 pm

thankyou for your reply.

i have seen the wiki pages, (and am about to review them again) just interested in other folks opinions
i play on a PC. unfortunately dont have a laptop... but most shops dont like to unbox if you arent buying. there is a largish computer shop near here that i will be going to in the near future and they *may* have some on display.
the issue with the joystick, any joystick, wearing out seems to be a common complaint in most reviews where the blogger has time to use the product for a while. this is an issue with any niche product (/old man's rant)
i have limited movement in my left arm... so havent really considered button boxes... but perhaps something could be worked out and i shall be taking another look at the idea.

I'm in the UK. PC World has a selection of unboxed thrustmaster hotas's - but not their Warthog. And as regards button boxes, have a look at Touchportal which downloads onto a smartphone.

it would have to be a but6on box ss a phone is a little small and light- would get pushed around.
i am in aussie.. brisbane. not a lot of large PC stores around. fortunate that obe of the better ones is only about 20mins away. i will get on over there and check what they have on display

Have to agree with Cody on this one. My first Logitech Extreme 3D Pro was good for about 15 years. In the past year or so it began to develop the drifting problems you described in your original post along with some throttle issues. Bought a new one on Amazon for just over $30.00 on sale about a month ago. Had forgotten how a new Joystick feels and operates (much stiffer on all axis and buttons) in comparison to a very old one so my spline curves for Oolite had to be redone. Would highly recommend this relatively cheap and very reliable Joystick. You could go with something much more expensive to get the extra buttons but the 12 on this Joystick plus the hat, the twist axis, and a throttle all in one for the price is hard to beat. If memory serves there is an option to use shift+button to give you even more options but that requires the lousy software that Logitech associates with this Joystick. Avoid that software as it has not been updated in a very long time leading to calibration problems. Allowing your OS to pick its own driver is a much better option.

No - Logitech is not my employer. This Joystick is just that good for the low price.

Nite Owl wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:33 pm

Have to agree with Cody on this one. My first Logitech Extreme 3D Pro was good for about 15 years. In the past year or so it began to develop the drifting problems you described in your original post along with some throttle issues. <snip>

Mine worked well for about one year, then the false inputs began...

For the last year I've been using a Thrustmaster T1600M and a Thrustmaster TWCS throttle (bought them for use with DCS, but they work well with Oolite or ED - the last, as with DCS, by using one button as a modifier to expand the number of buttons available).

Nite Owl wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:33 pm

Have to agree with Cody on this one. My first Logitech Extreme 3D Pro was good for about 15 years. In the past year or so it began to develop the drifting problems you described in your original post along with some throttle issues. Bought a new one on Amazon for just over $30.00 on sale about a month ago. Had forgotten how a new Joystick feels and operates (much stiffer on all axis and buttons) in comparison to a very old one so my spline curves for Oolite had to be redone. Would highly recommend this relatively cheap and very reliable Joystick. You could go with something much more expensive to get the extra buttons but the 12 on this Joystick plus the hat, the twist axis, and a throttle all in one for the price is hard to beat. If memory serves there is an option to use shift+button to give you even more options but that requires the lousy software that Logitech associates with this Joystick. Avoid that software as it has not been updated in a very long time leading to calibration problems. Allowing your OS to pick its own driver is a much better option.

No - Logitech is not my employer. This Joystick is just that good for the low price.

i have heard of people like you... gentle and caressing.
but i swing on that thing like an insane gibbon in the zoo.. they only last a few short months. the 3d pro is what i have i had to take the first two back as they had sticky buttons and insane drift straight out of the box. still... the cost of three every twelve months will equal a thrustmaster every 12months or a warthog every two years.

ty for your input

dybal wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 4:31 pm

Nite Owl wrote: ↑Mon Dec 12, 2022 3:33 pm

Have to agree with Cody on this one. My first Logitech Extreme 3D Pro was good for about 15 years. In the past year or so it began to develop the drifting problems you described in your original post along with some throttle issues. <snip>

Mine worked well for about one year, then the false inputs began...

For the last year I've been using a Thrustmaster T1600M and a Thrustmaster TWCS throttle (bought them for use with DCS, but they work well with Oolite or ED - the last, as with DCS, by using one button as a modifier to expand the number of buttons available).

ty for reply


i am leaning toward the Thrustmaster T16... cost vs reward seems better. i would really like to try the warthog.. simply because...

the T16 claims to have hall sensors.. the increased resolution would be a bonus at extreme range but i think the lesser wear of hall sensors would increase longevity

ok... i have been meaning to give an update for a couple of weeks but christmas busy-ness and my inherent laziness have got in the way...

i went with the Thrustmaster T16000 and TWCS throttle. i wish that these companys would employ as desigbers the people who use the products. the equipment it designed for some mutant who has hands about half as big again as mine. if i use the handrest on the stick i cannot reach the thumb buttons... of which there is unused room for two more. the throttle grip is so large one has to move their hand to the front to use the foward buttons and roll their hand to the rear to use the rear/lower buttons. pre-purchase i presumed that the throttle would plug into the stick, this is not so, it is stand-alone. hence i could have purchased another, smaller throttle from another company and used that. oh well... live and learn.
the hall sensors in the throttle have taught me that i have all the fine motor control of a gorilla. but i am learning. i have dead zone tuned to max. and will lower it as i go. so whilst not wowed by the stick, being too large and lacking as many buttons as it could have, i am not disappointed.
the throttle... ahh the throttle... to big, way to big. but it's main issue is what the internet calls 'sticktion' a portmeau of sticky and friction. it take so much push to get it moving that i have to steady the base with the ball of my hand else it slides across the desk (i am in the process of making a craftwood base to hold it in place. once the throttle starts moving it is ok but should it sit for any amount of time we are back to the whole sticktion and steady the base thing all over again.
it does have some good points... buttons and switches everywhere. three hats which in essence can be used as four switches each and a small paddle style axis which puts the yaw at my fingertips... docking and dogfighting has never been easier... slipping into a rock hermit to grab those sweet cheap precious stones and metals seems unfairly pleasurable and satisfying.
the 'sticktion' is... repairable by buying this...
https://vkb-sim.com.au/products/nyogel- ... 1834825913
not cheap and difficult to source. and has the disadvantage of needing to be replaced from time to time.

i found this...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uXqHUsm0cho
which.. in a fit of pique, i purchased. it is in transit and i shall review it (should) when it arrives. i got the last one on etsy but i am sure Corehawke will do another run.

a final word on buttons... i discovered a technique using
https://joytokey.net/en/ that allows me to map all the keys i use any many more to my stick/throttle so that once i start playing i need not touch the keyboard. increasing immersion immensely.
i am happy to elaborate on this should anyone need it.

afterword: installing the grease or the impulse slider requires disassembly of the throttle... voiding my warranty.
perhaps this is an intended consequence. perhaps not.

ty to all who answered my original cry for help

oh bugger... the italics messed up


edit: fixt

What a nightmare!

Wishing you a happy 2023...

And a Happy and Prosperous New Year to you and yours and One And All on the Board and in game

limbo wrote: ↑Sun Jan 01, 2023 8:49 am

i found this...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uXqHUsm0cho
which.. in a fit of pique, i purchased. it is in transit and i shall review it (should) when it arrives. i got the last one on etsy but i am sure Corehawke will do another run.

I bought that, it works well... in fact, the throttle slides back a little bit from the max position on its own weight...