Oolite Bulletins

hello

i have a problem to understand the meanings of this double definitions

can somebody explain to me the meaning?

==>> https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Shipd ... eapon_type
==>> https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Shipyard.plist - > "standard_equipment"

as i see the definition in shipdata make no sense, if shipyard has defined it.
but if not defined there ..can i use a beam-laser(or other) if a military-laser is
defined in shipdata?
( is there any quality order?
-- fx. beam is high - so you can use all lower than this ---- but no military - cause its higher )


Matthias

Slartibartfast wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:37 pm

hello

i have a problem to understand the meanings of this double definitions

can somebody explain to me the meaning?

==>> https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Shipd ... eapon_type
==>> https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Shipyard.plist - > "standard_equipment"

as i see the definition in shipdata make no sense, if shipyard has defined it.
but if not defined there ..can i use a beam-laser(or other) if a military-laser is
defined in shipdata?
( is there any quality order?
-- fx. beam is high - so you can use all lower than this ---- but no military - cause its higher )


Matthias

The shipdata.plist includes general information's about the ship, in case that there is a player-version a shipyard.plist with further details need to be created. The weapons in shipyard will override the entries in shipdata but, depending on your optional equipment, the system could assign a better laser than the standard one, e.g. beam instead of a pulse.

A good OXP should have shipdata and shipyard synchronized and include not the same equipment in optional and extra equipment. Unfortunately this in not always the case.

Slartibartfast wrote: ↑Thu Apr 14, 2022 10:37 pm

hello

i have a problem to understand the meanings of this double definitions

can somebody explain to me the meaning?

==>> https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Shipd ... eapon_type
==>> https://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Shipyard.plist - > "standard_equipment"

as i see the definition in shipdata make no sense, if shipyard has defined it.
but if not defined there ..can i use a beam-laser(or other) if a military-laser is
defined in shipdata?
( is there any quality order?
-- fx. beam is high - so you can use all lower than this ---- but no military - cause its higher )


Matthias

Let's see if this is your answer..

The shipdata holds all the basic rules and parameters of the ship. If it says beam laser, that's what an NPC will have when you meet it in space.

The shipyard sets the rules for when you see the ship in the "ships for sale" and equipment market, –only then, and this is exclusive for the player. It will define what is standard with a basic purchase, and what is optional. Sometimes the store will offer variations of the "optional eq already installed.

If military laser is among the optionals, it is available for you to buy it, if mining laser isn't in the optional list, you can't buy it, even though it's "lower", no order to it.

Hope that addresses what you're asking.

hi montana

O.K
this seems logical, that shipyard is boss! (for "player-ships )
and for "npc-ships" it should be shipdata-dependent
( cause there is no shipyard )

so ( in shipdata)
forward_weapon_type should not be allowed for player-ships ( has to be defined in shipyards )
for npc-ships a "max-laser" should be defined be defined in shipdata
-or ...... maybe "role" dependent

A good OXP should have shipdata and shipyard synchronized and include not the same equipment in optional and extra equipment. Unfortunately this in not always the case.

i hope my suggestions will help to make better/clearer oxp/oxz

matthias

Slartibartfast wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:14 am

so ( in shipdata)
forward_weapon_type should not be allowed for player-ships ( has to be defined in shipyards )
for npc-ships a "max-laser" should be defined be defined in shipdata
-or ...... maybe "role" dependent

matthias

Good morning Matthias,
weapon_type for player-ships in the shipdata is not a big deal, either way, shipyard will correct it. For a copy & paste enthusiast like me, it does offer the option to create a player ship with like_ship to the NPC version and just modify some details.

You do have the option auto_weapons for NPC's, if set you to "yes" the core-game will assign lasers from the pool available, including installed OXP's. With "no" only the laser from shipdata will appear in this specific ship.

Hmmm

is not very easy to understand
( and not very good documented )

.... i will do my very best

Slartibartfast wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:59 am

Hmmm

is not very easy to understand
( and not very good documented )

I do agree with you, some documentation isn't very clear and, to make it even more confusing, not every part is working as explained, sometimes a workaround is needed.

Slartibartfast wrote: ↑Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:59 am

.... i will do my very best

I am confident you will. Personally, if I intend to design something new, I spike the test OXP with logs to check the outcome and possible inference with other OXP's.

hi

i was playing around with the lasers
- but after all explanations -- the problem remains

in shipyard - you can enter what you want -> no effect
only shipdata sets the standard ( when you buy a ship )
-- but in shipdata the variable is called "forward_weapon_type"
and, in my eyes that means "all weapons are allowed,
which are in the matching group (f.x. beam-laser)"

--------------
btw. similar problem with "missiles"
imho - it makes no sense to define "max_missiles" in shipdata
- a ship has no missiles - it has pylons
so "number_of_pylons" would be much better

-- maybe, when you are working with that a long time -> no problem
but for a "new", who wants to understand what happens, .....it's not easy

cheers

Slartibartfast wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 1:35 am

hi

i was playing around with the lasers
- but after all explanations -- the problem remains

in shipyard - you can enter what you want -> no effect
only shipdata sets the standard ( when you buy a ship )

Good afternoon Matthias,
I was kind of surprised when I saw your message today, it is the opposite from what I got explained. However, some test-runs proofed that you are right. It doesn't matter if the laser in shipdata is weaker or stronger than in shipyard, shipdata will always be assigned, even if it is an OXP laser. Which, somehow, raises the questions for what the "forward_weapon_type" in shipyard actually exists.

Ok, I am passing this ball now in phkb's field, hopefully he could give us an explanation.

Sorry, I missed this originally. I'll check out what the source is doing and report back.

phkb wrote: ↑Thu May 05, 2022 5:44 am

Sorry, I missed this originally. I'll check out what the source is doing and report back.

Thank you phkb,
in the meanwhile we moved the discussion to the "Testing and bugs reports": viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21226