Oolite Bulletins

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:07 pm**

Definition of Categories.

We currently have the following categories:

Activities OXPs
Ambience OXPs
Dockables OXPs
Equipment OXPs
HUDs OXPs
Mechanics OXPs
Misc OXPs (potential members of a new category but with less than 5 members so far)
Missions OXPs
Retextures OXPs
Ships OXPs
Systems OXPs (originally just Anarchies, Commies, Dictatorships, Feudal States & Rescue Stations)
Weapons OXPs

(On wiki only: Broken OXPs, Deprecated OXPs, Unclassified OXPs)

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________

By and large the system works very well.

But.

I wonder if some new categories for the Expansions Manager might be a good idea...

0) Beginners' OXP's argument: helps beginners to immediately find relevant OXPs from the lo-o-ong list of 700+! Addons for Beginners, Addons for Beginners (Vital Statistics), Vimana Ship Overrides, Redspear's zillion-and-one relevant oxp's etc
1) Economics or Trade Fuel Tweaks, Risk Based Economy, Demand Driven Economy, SW Economy, New Cargoes, BlOomberg Markets, Smugglers etc
2) Ships with personalities argument: most of the ships are just ships. I feel that these special ones should be marked out - and help encourage others to be written! Aliens, Extra Thargoids, Second Wave, Swarm, Green Gecko, Hognose, various racing ships, Generation Ships?, Enhanced Vipers? etc
3) Ambience: Single System argument: Tianve, Riredi, Lave OXP etc are all doing the same sort of thing. And this should be encouraged! Riredi, Tianve, Tionisla Orbital Graveyard + Monuments & Shipwrecks, Tionisla Chronicle Array, Lave Academy (with hopefully Lave.oxp, Diso.oxp & Digebiti.oxp to be added at some stage - I need to work out how to introduce Cody's Extreme Dominoes to the F4 screen!) Asteroid Storm? etc
4) Navies Again, a distinctive sub-category which have a marked effect on one's game Behemoth, HIMSN (imminent), Chimera Gunship & Fix, Constitution Class Heavy Cruiser & Fix, Cylon Raider Mark 1, Aquatics? etc

And eventually (I hope) a Regions OXP's (currently only Paddling Pool qualifies, and that is really aimed at beginners)

Posted: **Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:57 pm**

Hmm....

I think that the argument for a beginner's/starting out/new pilot's licencecategory is a good one. Rather than multiple variants of beginner oxp packages we could put all of the relevant oxps in the one place from which to pick and choose.

However, if we do that then which one is a ship? which one is equipment? which one is ambience? We'd be both gaining and losing.

Many oxps overlap these categories anyway; e.g. Commies: systems, ships, dockables, ambience and perhaps even mechanics...

Isn't there an optional 'key word' category within manifest plist?
Perhaps encouraging authors to add 'beginner' or 'market' or whatever might be the way to go rather than confusing things further.

The only way to truly have categories for everything is ultimately for everything to have its own category. Twelve is already quite a lot and the more we exceed that number, I would argue, the less useful they become.

Sub categories (e.g. using the possibly mythical 'key word' concept) might sound nightmarish but consider how we classify living things: kingdom, phylum, family etc. etc. When you've got an ever expanding number of oxps, it might be the way to go.

Posted: **Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:30 pm**

Redspear wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:57 pm
Hmm....

I think that the argument for a beginner's/starting out/new pilot's licencecategory is a good one. Rather than multiple variants of beginner oxp packages we could put all of the relevant oxps in the one place from which to pick and choose.

However, if we do that then which one is a ship? which one is equipment? which one is ambience? We'd be both gaining and losing.

Many oxps overlap these categories anyway; e.g. Commies: systems, ships, dockables, ambience and perhaps even mechanics...

Isn't there an optional 'key word' category within manifest plist?
Perhaps encouraging authors to add 'beginner' or 'market' or whatever might be the way to go rather than confusing things further.

The only way to truly have categories for everything is ultimately for everything to have its own category. Twelve is already quite a lot and the more we exceed that number, I would argue, the less useful they become.

Sub categories (e.g. using the possibly mythical 'key word' concept) might sound nightmarish but consider how we classify living things: kingdom, phylum, family etc. etc. When you've got an ever expanding number of oxps, it might be the way to go.

Since a category is just a label and in so many areas items can have multiple labels, why should we not allow an OXP to be related to multiple categories at the same time? After all an OXP can introduce a ship and a new weapon system in parallel.

The only change we'd have to go for is to allow this field to be a comma separated list.
The question is where we'd have to do followup changes. My guess is they would only occur in the Expansion Manager, and maybe the oolite.org website.

Posted: **Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:13 pm**

Redspear wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:57 pm
Hmm....

I think that the argument for a beginner's/starting out/new pilot's licencecategory is a good one. Rather than multiple variants of beginner oxp packages we could put all of the relevant oxps in the one place from which to pick and choose.

However, if we do that then which one is a ship? which one is equipment? which one is ambience? We'd be both gaining and losing.

Many oxps overlap these categories anyway; e.g. Commies: systems, ships, dockables, ambience and perhaps even mechanics...

Just on this one point.

The original definition of systems to me was Dictators/Commies/Anarchies/Feudals. Each one covers a range of systems in Oolite and provides dockables/ships/missions etc specifically for that set of systems.

So a beginners category would be the same as this, but instead focused on oxp's aimed at neophytes.

Your other point on the 12 already existing categories is a good one, as is your point about sub-categories.

We do have 700+ oxz's already and if we translate over the workable oxp's from the further list of 400, we will need to provide tools to navigate the morass. There are far too many for most people to assimilate.

So to go back to my original suggestion:

0) Beginners' OXP's argument: helps beginners to immediately find relevant OXPs from the lo-o-ong list of 700+! Addons for Beginners, Addons for Beginners (Vital Statistics), Vimana Ship Overrides, Redspear's zillion-and-one relevant oxp's etc
1) Economics or Trade Fuel Tweaks, Risk Based Economy, Demand Driven Economy, SW Economy, New Cargoes, BlOomberg Markets, Smugglers etc
2) Ships with personalities argument: most of the ships are just ships. I feel that these special ones should be marked out - and help encourage others to be written! Aliens, Extra Thargoids, Second Wave, Swarm, Green Gecko, Hognose, various racing ships, Generation Ships?, Enhanced Vipers? etc
3) Ambience: Single System argument: Tianve, Riredi, Lave OXP etc are all doing the same sort of thing. And this should be encouraged! Riredi, Tianve, Tionisla Orbital Graveyard + Monuments & Shipwrecks, Tionisla Chronicle Array, Lave Academy (with hopefully Lave.oxp, Diso.oxp & Digebiti.oxp to be added at some stage - I need to work out how to introduce Cody's Extreme Dominoes to the F4 screen!) Asteroid Storm? etc
4) Navies Again, a distinctive sub-category which have a marked effect on one's game Behemoth, HIMSN (imminent), Chimera Gunship & Fix, Constitution Class Heavy Cruiser & Fix, Cylon Raider Mark 1, Aquatics? etc

I think Beginners needs to be a separate category. Economics or Trade could be a subcategory of Mechanics, Ships with Personalities & Navies could be sub-categories of Ships, Single Systems could be a sub-category of Systems.

It's a case of making things more easily digestible for newcomers who are trying to figure out what's what.

Posted: **Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:41 pm**

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:13 pm
It's a case of making things more easily digestible for newcomers who are trying to figure out what's what.

Beginner or not. that's the key point of categories I think.

If so, then the purpose of selecting a category is:

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:13 pm
to navigate the morass

Spelling out the obvious maybe but with good cause I think.
Speaking of which...

hiran wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 8:30 pm
Since a category is just a label and in so many areas items can have multiple labels, why should we not allow an OXP to be related to multiple categories at the same time? After all an OXP can introduce a ship and a new weapon system in parallel.

Good point but here's the thing...

You could have an oxp that only fits into dockables, an oxp that only fits into mechanics or equipment but what would fit only into beginners? Extra starting credits?

My point is that if a category either overlaps by default/design or is very specific (e.g. Navies) then just how useful is it?
i.e. does it help to reduce confusion and home in on what you want.

The obvious answer might appear to be yes, just tick the boxes you want and the selection will be reduced accordingly but that assumes multiple categories being selected and therfore multiple choices being made by anyone who doesn't know what thwy're looking for.

I think the optional key word category could do that fairly eloquently however and not require such a change.
e.g. I'm looking for a station that also offers some flavour
Keywords: station, ambience

IIRC there's no limit to the number of key words.

After a quick serch, it seems 'tags' is what I meant, not 'key words'.

tags

A list of (probably short) text strings that might be useful to OXP search applications.

"tags" = ( "station", "equipment" );

In 1.81 onwards, tags can also be used to determine OXPs which can be loaded in scenarios

So we already have the potential to clarify the situation with out the need for new categories IMHO.
I think we might be trying to solve a problem that doesn't necessarily exist beyong encouraging use of the tags feature.

Posted: **Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:39 pm**

And exactly how useful is the Tags feature?

How many oxp authors bother with this? And how many really think about what they type in here?

And how are people supposed to know what the tags are? I come along and type in "new player", Araminta types in "New Player", you type in "beginner", Hiran types in "Newbie", somebody else types in "Newbee"...

And how much work would be involved in going through everything and sorting out the tags?

There would be some work in creating new categories/subcategories - but rather less, methinks...

So it might actually happen.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Appendix: Assorted Tags:

Norby's Addons for Beginners (Category: Activities) - 50 oxp's - Tag: Collections
Ambiences recommended by Norby (Category: Ambience) - 60 oxp's - Tags: safe,collection

Deep Horizon Advanced Navigation Computer (Category: Equipment) - Tags: navigation
Deep Horizon Emergency Witchspace Initiator (Category: Equipment) - Tags: none

Redspear's Additional Planets SR: free bitmaps icy (Category:Ambience) - Tag: additional planets
Stranger's Planetary Systems Texture Pack D (Category: Ambience) - Tag: none
a_c's Diso is Jupiter 8k (Category: Ambience) - Tag: ambience, jupiter, planet
Stranger's Leesti is Moon 8k (Category: Ambience) - Tag: none

Thargoid's Planetfall (Category: Dockables) - Tag: none
Norby's Planetfall Markets (Category: Dockables) - Tag: none
Thargoid's Planetfall Mission - OoHaul (Category: Missions) - Tag: none

Svangali's Library (Category: Miscellaneous) - Tags: config,effects,helper,library,misc,parent,tools,sanity,shaders

Wildeblood's Data - Ship Name (Category: HUDs) - Tags: data source

Behemoth (Category: Dockables) - Tag: none

Mining IFF Scanner Upgrade (Category: Equipment) - Tags: scanner,mining
Police IFF Scanner (Category: Equipment) - Tags: none

Redspear, you and I can't even agree on which category selected oxp's should go under. Invisible tags will be even more whimsical and misleading unless we appoint an arbiter who will keep things organised (and upset everybody) and then give up after a massive uprising in a month or so.

Categories/sub-categories might work. Tags won't.

Posted: **Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:42 am**

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:39 pm
And exactly how useful is the Tags feature?

How many oxp authors bother with this? And how many really think about what they type in here?

Very few I suspect but then it is optional, 'category' isn't.
It's convention rather than usefulness that makes it so.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:39 pm
And how much work would be involved in going through everything and sorting out the tags?

There would be some work in creating new categories/subcategories - but rather less, methinks...

Don't know for sure but don't forget that you're essentially suggesting checking for the recategorisation of every existing oxz. If we don't do that then how can it be thorough?

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:39 pm
Redspear, you and I can't even agree on which category selected oxp's should go under. Invisible tags will be even more whimsical and misleading unless we appoint an arbiter who will keep things organised (and upset everybody) and then give up after a massive uprising in a month or so.

Well your first point is as maybe but I don't think I'm quite as strident in my opinions as to be sure of any of them.

Invisible tags?
Arbiter?

If your plan is to ammend the drop down menu of 'Category' and you are averse to using tags because they are 'whimsical', then why not a drop down menu for tags? That way you could formalise it - hiran's multiple categories idea could then exist in a fashion, yet by remaining optional it needn't be confusing. Some oxp's really are just ships.

No need to recategorise the wiki pages, just encourage oxp maintainers to use the tag feature for their next update, where appropriate. Make it compulsory maybe, with an N/A option perhaps.
Three drop down boxes if you like for multiple tags. I've limited experience of programming html before, I don't think it's that hard IF we really wanted it.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:39 pm
Categories/sub-categories might work. Tags won't.

Catchy, but it's a sound-bite and I think you know it.

Tags effectively are sub-categories they're just individually versatile enough to apply to multiple categories rather than singular ones.

Could I be wrong? Sure... But how sure are you exactly?

(...and yes, that's a sound-bite too

)

Posted: **Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:01 am**

And 2 sub-categories I recommend:
Combat-related Equipment
Navigation/space-related Equipment

Here's a list of Equipment I'm working on and/or I've released:
Auto-ECM
Misjump Inducer
Quantum Drive - Galactic Hyperdrive mod
Variable Jump Drive - Misjump mod
Wormhole Bomb

Only the first qualifies as directly combat-related.
The rest would fall under the 2nd category.

Posted: **Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:34 pm**

Reference

25 Activities OXPs
155 Ambience OXPs (but this includes 13 YAH oxp's, 17 Xenon UI's, 9 Fonts, 9 Planetary Systems & 11 Additional Planets). It also includes Black Monks (Why ambience? And not activities? loans - the fons et origo of its creation/ dockables? monasteries - one of the unique dockables/ ships? Black Monk Gunships - ship with personality/ misc? Holy Fuel)
24 Dockables OXPs
113 Equipment OXPs
39 HUDs OXPs (includes 10 MFD's)
83 Mechanics OXPs
24 Misc OXPs (potential members of a new category but with less than 5 members so far)
31 Missions OXPs
58 Retextures OXPs
121 Ships OXPs
8 Systems OXPs (originally just Anarchies, Commies, Dictatorships, Feudal States & Rescue Stations)
18 Weapons OXPs
Total = 699 (ignores some doubles).

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2023 5:26 pm**

Switeck wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:01 am
Here's a list of Equipment I'm working on and/or I've released:
Auto-ECM
Misjump Inducer
Quantum Drive - Galactic Hyperdrive mod
Variable Jump Drive - Misjump mod
Wormhole Bomb

Just added the top two to my cocktail of OXPs.

There is something a bit odd with your Misjump Inducer.

I got error messages on start up saying that it could not be loaded because there was no valid manifest.plist.

3 different start-ups.

Code: Select all

18:09:23.583 [oxp.noManifest] +[ResourceManager checkPotentialPath::] (ResourceManager.m:611): OXZ ~/Library/Application Support/Oolite/Managed AddOns/Oolite.oxp.Switeck.Misjump-Inducer_v0.3.oxz has no manifest.plist
18:09:25.462 [oxp.noManifest] +[ResourceManager checkPotentialPath::] (ResourceManager.m:611): OXZ ~/Library/Application Support/Oolite/Managed AddOns/Oolite.oxp.Switeck.Misjump-Inducer_v0.3.oxz has no manifest.plist

When I broke it open, there was your manifest.plist staring right back at me.

And according to the AppleMac's "plutil", there was nothing whatsoever wrong with it.

I merely repackaged it as an .oxp, left it in the Managed AddOns folder, and Oolite started up without a quibble, even seemingly registering the manifest.plist:

    ~/Library/Application Support/Oolite/Managed AddOns/oolite.oxp.Switeck.Misjump-Inducer_v0.3.oxp

Were you nibbling away on some Arriesenian Deadly Arts Graduates when you wrote it?

Posted: **Fri Sep 08, 2023 5:57 pm**

So is it an Apple-specific bug or something worse?

...Or is there multiple installs of Misjump Inducer, since you get the error message twice?

Oolite Bulletins

OXP Categories (Analysis/Discussion)

OXP Categories (Analysis/Discussion)

Re: OXP Categories (Analysis/Discussion)

Re: OXP Categories (Analysis/Discussion)

Re: OXP Categories (Analysis/Discussion)

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Re: OXP Categories (Analysis/Discussion)

Re: OXP Categories (Analysis/Discussion)

Re: OXP Categories (Analysis/Discussion)

Re: OXP Categories (Analysis/Discussion)

Re: OXP Categories (Analysis/Discussion)

Re: OXP Categories (Analysis/Discussion)