(WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

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(WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by phkb »

Concept...

Image

I'm playing around with an idea on how to make an offender/fugitive career slightly more sustainable, by having the Coriolis station in some Anarchy systems be taken over by pirates. As an offender and particularly as a fugitive, you'd be able to dock at these station, and all the illegal goods would be available for purchase at bargain basement prices. Probably have one or two of the standard commodities as really expensive (eg luxuries, precious metals) - need to work out some logic there.

The station would have patrolling pirates, it would launch pirates in defense, and GalCop would occasionally launch an offensive against the station, trying to get back control. That would happen from time to time, so there would be GNN news items announcing which systems had succumbed to pirate attack, and which ones had been recovered by GalCop forces.

The main thing I'd like to do is keep this one as contained as possible (rather than doing my normal thing of having it grow like topsy). Making an offender/fugitive career path sustainable will require more than one change, but this could be one aspect.

Let me know what you think.
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by Cholmondely »

I very much like the idea. If I'm correct, the only real sign in the game of the weakness of GalCop is the quantities of pirates. This seems logical and also makes the term "anarchy" much more meaningful as a description.

Your concept may well need tweaking over time, but to my mind that is the hallmark of a good idea (Oolite, Diplomancy and Strangers World have all gone that way!). Looking very much forwards!
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by Cody »

A splendid idea! Back when I was a contrabandista, such stations would've been havens of joy!
I would advise stilts for the quagmires, and camels for the snowy hills
And any survivors, their debts I will certainly pay. There's always a way!
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by cbr »

The station should accept regular ( 'harmless' ie ) traders,couriers and similar visitors also or is there a refueling galcop constore spawned at the witchpoint?
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by Cholmondely »

cbr wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:05 pm
The station should accept regular ( 'harmless' ie ) traders,couriers and similar visitors also or is there a refueling galcop constore spawned at the witchpoint?
Should they? Maybe only if they pay through the nose not to get scragged en route! And would a GalCop constore survive at the witchpoint?

And should there be news and information available if the pirates conquered the coriolis a day or two ago (or longer). Should these orbitals be marked on the maps as pirate-infested (skull & crossbones?)? Would GalCop publicise all this (to help raise money for their forces and look after their people) or suppress the news (out of embarrasment)?
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by Milo »

I forget which, but I think there is another oxp that has main stations that are taken over by non-galcop factions.
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by phkb »

cbr wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:05 pm
The station should accept regular ( 'harmless' ie ) traders,couriers and similar visitors also or is there a refueling galcop constore spawned at the witchpoint?
Not sure at this point. My initial thought would be, this is going to make anarchy systems more dangerous, so why would a harmless/clean player want to risk it? Profits, I guess. Right now, with what I’ve put together so far, the station has an allegiance of “pirate”, so a clean player wouldn’t get a nice welcome.

However, with what I’m trying to achieve, I think that’s probably the best way forward. There are plenty of safe places a clean trader can dock, and precious few for an offender/fugitive. If a clean player had to transit through one of these systems, it would kind of give them a new experience - track down a Rock Hermit, or do a fuel scoop run past the sun.

As for notifications, I was thinking there would be some interface screen that would list the current systems in an overrun state, either negatively, from a GALCOP viewpoint, or positively, from a pirate one, with a map screen for visuals. And I think I’ll need to make the witch point beacon make an announcement to any new arrival that the main station is not under GALCOP control, so in case you missed all the news, you still have a chance to work things out on arrival before trying to head to the station.
Milo wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:11 pm
I forget which, but I think there is another oxp that has main stations that are taken over by non-galcop factions.
Interesting! The “Anarchies” oxp has naval bases that have been taken over by pirates, but I’m not aware of one that does main stations. If you (or someone else) can track down the OXP that would be handy for reference!
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by Cody »

phkb wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:30 pm
There are plenty of safe places a clean trader can dock, and precious few for an offender/fugitive.
Ramen! As for notifications, that's the type of system info I'd expect from something like spara's Navigation-MFD.
If a pirate-controlled station didn't require docking permission, then couriers and the like could run the gauntlet.
I would advise stilts for the quagmires, and camels for the snowy hills
And any survivors, their debts I will certainly pay. There's always a way!
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by montana05 »

A possibility could be the purchase of a "way permit" prior to your flight there. Kind of a visa offered by one of the influential/crime organizations of the system. Since, most likely, there will be competing groups there as well, the permit will keep some pirates away while others still attack. At least you can dock at the station.
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by Cholmondely »

montana05 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:17 am
A possibility could be the purchase of a "way permit" prior to your flight there. Kind of a visa offered by one of the influential/crime organizations of the system. Since, most likely, there will be competing groups there as well, the permit will keep some pirates away while others still attack. At least you can dock at the station.
Or a choice between a cheaper way permit and a more expensive escort. But how many of such systems would offer these choices? And to what extent would they be honoured?

You might have five gangs each controlling bits of the orbital. The smallest is the most organised at the next system's orbital and sell way permits there, and offers escorts (who fail to fly into the wormhole, or disappear at the buoy, or flee at the first sign of trouble!)...

What would the effect on shipyard equipment outfitting prices be?

And to what extent might a local rock hermit end up being a better bet for working market/dockyard facilities than the scragged orbital?

And to what extent might GalCop be involved in trying to take back command? Galactic Navy vs HIMSN vs nothing at all?

And to what extent would GalCop-reliant OXPs operate? The ones for example which rely on GalCop information: STE giving legal status of target? Bounty scanners? E-mail? Elite Rank scanner? GalCop Galactic Registry? Market Inquirer? Police IFF Scanner Upgrade? Rock Hermit Locator? Technical Reference Library? Telescope? Welcome Mat OXP?
And ... where do the UPS courier's GalCop Scanner & Universal Scanner get their information from? And, while one could find a plethora of pirates willing to take one's money to hack one's criminal record... would they actually be able to deliver?

And depending on the technical know-how of the pirate gangs: would the docking computers still work? Or ILS?

Edited several times now as the list grows ever longer... What was that comment about keeping things contained... ?
Last edited by Cholmondely on Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by cbr »

cbr wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:05 pm
The station should accept regular ( 'harmless' ie ) traders,couriers and similar visitors also or is there a refueling galcop constore spawned at the witchpoint?
Where would the pirate sell itś loot/cargo?
Who buys and sells the cargo the pirate stations offers? An offender trader goes where next?

Where do you buy those permits in a clean system?
Perhaps a time based offender status visa ( so many days to conduct busy and get out )
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by Cholmondely »

cbr wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:07 am
Where would the pirate sell its loot/cargo?
I presume this is a preamble for what comes next....
Who buys and sells the cargo the pirate stations offers? An offender trader goes where next?
So the pirate stations, like normal orbitals act as a market for items traded between the planet and other places.
The successful pirates/offender traders will have clean ships or be able to store their goods on other clean ships, no?
An offender trader may well have a clean boa or anaconda with offender/fugitive escorts (and look just like a visiting legal trader!).
Where do you buy those permits in a clean system?
*Black market on the orbital (see the descriptions of Xezaor's orbital in Dark Wheel Chapter 6)
*Rock Hermits selling smuggling compartments... (Smugglers oxp)
*Black market on Planet Surface
Perhaps a time based offender status visa ( so many days to conduct business and get out )
Good question. How do pirates really work?

Would there be some sort of organisation? - just because they are in an anarchy, does that mean that there are anarchic themselves? So would they be organised in gangs/triads/mafias/yakuza etc.? And would there be a transcendant over-arching organisation, controlling the disparate groups? Something like the Knights Templar from the Imprint novella?

Gangs help the gangsters in operating in lawful areas - the criminal organisation helps in combating the organised police. But in an anarchy without organised police? What then? Could it be that the law of natural selection would help the organised gangs succeed versus the unorganised? So that the successful pirate groups would be the more organised ones? And would they need to be organised to conquer an orbital station from GalCop?

So we have at least two different structures here: the structure of legal classification where GalCop decrees that some people are clean, others offenders and yet others fugitives. And then we have another structure - that of Triad Numero Uno. And Mafia gang numero duo has another structure, and Blackbeard's pirate clan have a third structure.

The fact that I have been decreed a fugitive by GalCop will mean precisely what to each of these three structures? Will it mean anything other than that they might see me as a potential member? Or a potential threat? Or a future traitor? Or an undercover GalCopian? etc... etc... After all, the classification is GalCop's! And I get it if I picked up enough parking tickets!
[/quote]

Another point: Galactic Navy To what extent is Anarchies parasitic on the currently unusable Galactic Navy? Who runs the Sentinel Stations? And the amnesty offers?
- would there be sense in making the Galactic Navy involvement optional via SysConfig or somesuch?

Another point: Markets How do market prices vary?
In a standard anarchy, the Coriolis is paid for by penny-pinching GalCop alone, hence the reduced GalCop police patrols. There is no assistance from the anarchy. So GalCop must raise money to help pay for their operation. Income seems to be solely through trade. So they also need to try and encourage this trade whose tariffs pay for the station. They have not enough money to pay for proper police patrols, so they are reliant on visits by well-armed/escorted traders.

So on the one hand, the orbital station markets must offer cheap goods for sale (so there will not be heavy tariffs on what is sold at the orbital market), and, on the other hand, there will be considerable tariffs on what is brought down to the planet. The expensive computers bought at the orbital will be much more expensive when they get down to the planet's surface and GalCop has recouped some of the running costs for the orbital and the police.

What might this mean for planetary markets? These are not controlled by GalCop. Are some of them controlled by pirate gangs? What are prices like down there?

No tariffs when I sell my computers, and the going rate is higher... But so are the risks - GalCop don't control the market, so I'm at the mercy of whatever ruffian wishes to diddle me. Food could be even cheaper! No transport costs to the orbital up out of the gravity well (but maybe those are paid for by the computer trade which is so lucrative that it pays for the traffic both ways), and if there are minor GalCop tariffs, I don't pay them. So: better prices but more risks.
Comments wanted:
Missing OXPs? What do you think is missing?
Lore: The economics of ship building How many built for Aronar?
Lore: The Space Traders Flight Training Manual: Cowell & MgRath Do you agree with Redspear?
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by montana05 »

cbr wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:07 am
Where would the pirate sell its loot/cargo?
As Cholmondely mentioned, most likely in systems in the neighborhood by using clean freighters or contractors.
cbr wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:07 am
Where do you buy those permits in a clean system?
Probably on the black market or non-GalCop stations in systems nearby.
Cholmondely wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:31 am
Good question. How do pirates really work?
I could imagine not much different to cooperations or governments, except the use of their own rules instead of laws. Major syndicates in control, using contractors/associates (groups, gangs, ...) for support and once in a while start a war with another competitor. There might be a commission like with the American Mafia, but I guess a structure like in a multi-government system should be expected.
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by Nite Owl »

Just took a quick look at the Market Scripts for Stations for Extra Planets and Super Hubs for Extra Planets. Both of these scripts are based off of the prices and commodity lists at the Main Station with a varying multiple based on their distance from the Main Station. So if you alter the prices and/or change the commodities at the Main Station would you then also be altering the prices and commodities at these stations, of which there can be many? Then you also have the situation of when the Main Station is taken over by a Non GalCop faction what happens to the other stations in the system? Do they remain with their GalCop affiliation or do they go Rogue as well? Can one of these Extra Stations be taken over by some other faction while the Main Station remains with GalCop?

Lots of possibilities within the context of just these two other OXZs but few outcomes if you want it to keep it "contained". Like my signature always says "Good Night and Good Luck".
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Re: (WIP Concept) Anarchy Overhaul

Post by Cody »

How would aegis raiders fit into such a system?
I would advise stilts for the quagmires, and camels for the snowy hills
And any survivors, their debts I will certainly pay. There's always a way!
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