Oolite Bulletins

I want to come up with something for non-English Keyboards which helps those using them. Does this work? It is not one of my many problems, so I'm guessing...

=== Non-English Keyboards ===
If you are lucky enough to have one of these, you will have noticed that some of the key-commands either don't work or do something else! (...the character code produced by any key press may be different than that from an English Keyboard). Needless to say, Oolite was written for the English Keyboard!

What to do?

*What does What? The View Keyboard Configuration page (found in-game on the Game Options page offered at game startup) shows you what your keys on your keyboard actually do in-game. So memorise that list, rather than what you find elsewhere in the literature. This is the only up-to-date list of all the key commands.

The Ship's Manual found in-game (if you have added the Ship's Library OXP) also tells you what the keys on your keyboard do! A more gentle introduction.

*Changing what does what! Use Keyconfig to change what the keys on your keyboard actually do to something which you find easier to remember/easier to use. (Keyconfig also has keyboard layouts for the USA, French (AZERTY), German (QWERTZ), Italian & Russian)

*If you are experienced in this sort of thing, the character codes (Decimal & Hex) will be found in Oolite Keyboard Controls.

* Keyconfig.plist for [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.ph ... 66#p273466 French] (Gracieuseté du Monsieur le Commandant STyx).
* Keyconfig.plist for [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.ph ... 75#p273475 Latin American] (Gracias al Supremo, Serendipitoso y Sereno El Señor Comandante Reval).

If none of this works for you, ask for help here: [https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20638 ''Foreign language'' keyboards] (BB Discussion thread). You may need to register on our Bulletin Board in order to do so.

Does this work? Is my English too confusing? Have I made any mistakes? Etc.. etc..

From: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Keyboard_Issues

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:40 pm

I want to come up with something for non-English Keyboards which helps those using them. Does this work? It is not one of my many problems, so I'm guessing...

[...]

Does this work? Is my English too confusing? Have I made any mistakes? Etc.. etc..

From: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Keyboard_Issues

It is frustrating to address a problem for others and then see these others do not care. I am one of those impacted and who should care. And usually I am the one opening topics on behalf of others. So what happened?

I will try to explain my thoughts, my self-analysis is probably not fully coherent.
When I started playing Oolite, I only found basic keys and got around with them to some degree. When trying to explore more functionality, just trying the keyboard did not help at all. Going for manuals led me to many not-working keys either. Going for more information on the keys just opened pandora's box as I got stuck between make/break codes, keycodes (raw) and characters (cooked). Although I am somewhat familiar with keyboards and keyboard drivers I have not been in that situation since almost two decades, and the books on those topics are no longer in my shelf. Google reveals a plethora of information not helping either. And when I ultimately got the hint to download keyconfig and start patching the game that's when I surrendered.

Not sure when/how fast I would come back to the topic, although I feel I could have a lot more control.

hiran wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:41 am

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:40 pm

I want to come up with something for non-English Keyboards which helps those using them. Does this work? It is not one of my many problems, so I'm guessing...

[...]

Does this work? Is my English too confusing? Have I made any mistakes? Etc.. etc..

From: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Keyboard_Issues

It is frustrating to address a problem for others and then see these others do not care. I am one of those impacted and who should care. And usually I am the one opening topics on behalf of others. So what happened?

I will try to explain my thoughts, my self-analysis is probably not fully coherent.
When I started playing Oolite, I only found basic keys and got around with them to some degree. When trying to explore more functionality, just trying the keyboard did not help at all. Going for manuals led me to many not-working keys either. Going for more information on the keys just opened pandora's box as I got stuck between make/break codes, keycodes (raw) and characters (cooked). Although I am somewhat familiar with keyboards and keyboard drivers I have not been in that situation since almost two decades, and the books on those topics are no longer in my shelf. Google reveals a plethora of information not helping either. And when I ultimately got the hint to download keyconfig and start patching the game that's when I surrendered.

Not sure when/how fast I would come back to the topic, although I feel I could have a lot more control.

So what might help?

Not a programmer - so don't know if any of this is feasible:

1) Germanic QWERTZ.oxz in Expansions Manager which maps QWERTZ keyboard for English vanilla game keys commands (ie semicolons control MDFs) with wiki page giving keyboard layout and suggestions for further tweaking

Advantage: better for learning the game as all material is currently aimed at the QWERTY keyboard

2) QWERTZ.oxz in Expansions Manager which maps QWERTZ keyboard for QWERTZ players, adapting English vanilla game keys commands to QWERTZ play with wiki page giving keyboard layout and suggestions for further tweaking.

Advantage: better for playing the game

I presume that that is what TSOJ's keyboard selection here does:


Thought: at the moment the only material which is Keyboard-variety sensitive is
1) the in-game Keyboard settings page and
2) the in-game Ship's Library Manual (not fully updated with key-commands). (You need to be able to get to the docked F4 page to find it - or (horrors) know how to manipulate the MDFs

Is there anything else which might be written which would be useful?
Is there anything else that could be written that would run from the game code (so-to-speak) which might be useful?

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:07 am

So what might help?

Not a programmer - so don't know if any of this is feasible:

1) Germanic QWERTZ.oxz in Expansions Manager which maps QWERTZ keyboard for English vanilla game keys commands (ie semicolons control MDFs) with wiki page giving keyboard layout and suggestions for further tweaking

Advantage: better for learning the game as all material is currently aimed at the QWERTY keyboard

This would mean the keys in the documentation would stay stable but the locations on the keyboard vary. This can have strange side effects, such as the semicolon is pressing shift+comma. And dot/comma are used to yaw the ship. The impact would be that you canot fly while controlling the MFDs. Lethal during barrel rolls...

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:07 am

2) QWERTZ.oxz in Expansions Manager which maps QWERTZ keyboard for QWERTZ players, adapting English vanilla game keys commands to QWERTZ play with wiki page giving keyboard layout and suggestions for further tweaking.

Advantage: better for playing the game

This would vary the key labels in favour of keeping the keys at the same stable position.
I think I'd prefer this approach. It would also make it easier for someone used to one language to switch to another and still play Oolite.
However as the keys have different labels now reading manuals that go like "press N, then j" would have to be translated first.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:07 am

I presume that that is what TSOJ's keyboard selection here does:

This seems to be a complete redefinition. Just look at the fact that the ship is controlled with a/d for yawing, w/s for pulling/pushing and q/e for rolling the ship. It means you would fly it left-handed, and I assume the other keys are reassigned in a similar fashion.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:07 am

Thought: at the moment the only material which is Keyboard-variety sensitive is
1) the in-game Keyboard settings page and
2) the in-game Ship's Library Manual (not fully updated with key-commands). (You need to be able to get to the docked F4 page to find it - or (horrors) know how to manipulate the MDFs

Is there anything else which might be written which would be useful?
Is there anything else that could be written that would run from the game code (so-to-speak) which might be useful?

Well, how often will I look at the in game keyboard settings page while in flight? I'm sorry to say but that seems far away out of reach.
But how about some printable functionality? The key definition can be rendered into some SVG or PDF document, printed and are visible as cheat sheet right besides the keyboard. Or we print something that can be used as overlay, just as indicated by some of the solutions.

Yes, this may be old style but then it is one of the most efficient ways I can think of...

hiran wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:53 pm

This seems to be a complete redefinition. Just look at the fact that the ship is controlled with a/d for yawing, w/s for pulling/pushing and q/e for rolling the ship. It means you would fly it left-handed, and I assume the other keys are reassigned in a similar fashion.

In fairness to TSOJ, he had proclaimed the following:

"The main point is to reset the control of axis to q,e for rolling, a,d for yawing, s,w for pitch. Especially the use of yawing makes aiming much easier. Accelerating is done by the up arrow, decelerating with the down arrow, the laser with the right arrow, ECM with the left arrow. This way I can use all the important functions that I need during combat without having to move my hands around."

I don't have a good "normal" example for the German Keyboard, but maybe

Cmdr James wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:01 pm

Cmdr James

,

maik wrote: ↑Sat May 22, 2021 10:02 pm

Maik

or

montana05 wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 12:55 am

montana05

have something at hand. I hope so!

I've only seen French & Spanish so far, and I presume that Roolite has something good for Russian.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:14 pm

I don't have a good "normal" example for the German Keyboard, but maybe

Cmdr James wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:01 pm

Cmdr James

,

What do you want to know?

The german keyboard has almost all letters in the "normal" place with z and y reversed. The special keys such as colon etc are almost totally different.

Note however that qwertz is not a keyboard layout but rather a family of layouts which are similar. See for example Czech layout.

Note also that mac keyboards are not the same as windows.

FWIW if you pause and go to view the controls they seem to me to correctly show german key locations. For example , instead of < for yaw left.

Cmdr James wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:57 pm

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:14 pm

I don't have a good "normal" example for the German Keyboard, but maybe

Cmdr James wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:01 pm

Cmdr James

,

What do you want to know?

The german keyboard has almost all letters in the "normal" place with z and y reversed. The special keys such as colon etc are almost totally different.

Note however that qwertz is not a keyboard layout but rather a family of layouts which are similar. See for example Czech layout.

Note also that mac keyboards are not the same as windows.

FWIW if you pause and go to view the controls they seem to me to correctly show german key locations. For example , instead of < for yaw left.

I just had a thorough look at that page and can confirm those I knew about were right.
Then I went flying to try some new ones but got distracted by an absolutely random triumph over a thargoid mothership. Wow. I had problems fighting them in the Imperial Star Destroyer. Now I made it in a Cobra MKIII...

hiran wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:33 pm

I had problems fighting them in the Imperial Star Destroyer. Now I made it in a Cobra MKIII...

That comes as no surprise!

Cody wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:03 pm

hiran wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:33 pm

I had problems fighting them in the Imperial Star Destroyer. Now I made it in a Cobra MKIII...

That comes as no surprise!

To me it does. With a heavily armed and armored ship, 72 Tie fighters, several escorts and idontknowhowmany automatic turrets I was barely able to survive. A small cobra can withstand the blasts and allow my poor aiming skills to eventually shoot the Thargoid out of spacetime.

hiran wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:50 am

Cody wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:03 pm

hiran wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:33 pm

I had problems fighting them in the Imperial Star Destroyer. Now I made it in a Cobra MKIII...

That comes as no surprise!

To me it does. With a heavily armed and armored ship, 72 Tie fighters, several escorts and idontknowhowmany automatic turrets I was barely able to survive. A small cobra can withstand the blasts and allow my poor aiming skills to eventually shoot the Thargoid out of spacetime.

Well done there, old boy!

Don't forget: "Combat is stressful, but take care to breathe evenly - again to reduce the chance of jerking the targeting reticule off the enemy ship" as Winston wrote back in 2006 (Laser tactics page on wiki). Sage advice from the author of the Linux version!

Cmdr James wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:57 pm

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:14 pm

I don't have a good "normal" example for the German Keyboard, but maybe

Cmdr James wrote: ↑Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:01 pm

Cmdr James

,

What do you want to know?

The german keyboard has almost all letters in the "normal" place with z and y reversed. The special keys such as colon etc are almost totally different.

Note however that qwertz is not a keyboard layout but rather a family of layouts which are similar. See for example Czech layout.

Note also that mac keyboards are not the same as windows.

FWIW if you pause and go to view the controls they seem to me to correctly show german key locations. For example , instead of < for yaw left.

Do you play with the English keyboard settings, or have you remapped some of them to Qwertz? And if you have, is there any chance of sneaking a peek at your Keyboard.config file?

... Oh! ... and I stumbled across a mention of a German Oolite website whilst poking my nose into Roolite last night! ... Any idea what happened to it?

As far as I can tell a fresh installation uses the same keys (not the same letters!) as the english layout.
So for me the challenge would not be to remap the keys, but rather to provide an overlay so that people who use qwertz can find the corresponding key on their keyboard. For example we dont use < and > to yaw but the same keys that represent those on qwertz, those being , and .

But even this, Im confused, where exactly is the problem? If you look at the key mappings in game (pause F2) they correctly show the bindings.

FWIW I do not think < and > are good yaw key on qwertz because its the same key with and without shift, a very unnatural mapping.

Cmdr James wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:46 am

As far as I can tell a fresh installation uses the same keys (not the same letters!) as the english layout.
So for me the challenge would not be to remap the keys, but rather to provide an overlay so that people who use qwertz can find the corresponding key on their keyboard. For example we dont use < and > to yaw but the same keys that represent those on qwertz, those being , and .

But even this, Im confused, where exactly is the problem? If you look at the key mappings in game (pause F2) they correctly show the bindings.

FWIW I do not think < and > are good yaw key on qwertz because its the same key with and without shift, a very unnatural mapping.

We all do things differently - and there is a lot of information out there.

Personally (only ever using the UK AppleMac), I never looked at "the key mappings in game (pause F2)". I ran the tutorial several times (getting marmalised by asteroids each time) and printed out the Oolite Reference Sheets where I high-lighted the ones I didn't yet know.

But Hiran seems to have just struggled away, possibly without looking at anything much in his early days... and having problems with both priming equipment and handling MFDs (if I recall).

All of the Keyboard material (apart from "the key mappings in game (pause F2)") is dated before v.1.90, and lacks the most recent ctrl-: & ctrl-; key-commands (and some even lack : & ;)

I presume that in the old days - with most new players initially seeking to emulate Classic Elite - that this would have been less important. But that is no longer true: new players nowadays seem to start with flying an Imperial Star Destroyer!

The other out-of-game reference sources I have so far found are
•Wiki page: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Oolite ... d_Controls - aimed at programmers (not players), lacks v.1.90 and possibly earlier versions too
•Keyconfig programme: http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Keyconfig - not updated since v.1.82 (with QWERTZ/AZERTY etc)
•Gimi's Oolite KeyMaps: https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11561 - not updated since v.1.79 (but has 8 versions!)
•OoliteRS.pdf (downloaded with game) - lacks v.1.90 (not too surprising - new keys with no more room on the first page for them... )
•Pilot's Manual on wiki: wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Pilot's_Reference_Manual - very little information on key-commands
•ClymAngus's Overlays: www.crimsonforge.co.uk/cloister/oolitebutton.jpg - 2009! (before v.1.76)

Then there is of course the issue of the wiki/printed material giving one set of names to some of the keycommands, "the key mappings in game (pause F2)" giving another set of names and the Joystick Configuration pages giving a third set of names!
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Gimi's KeyMaps (also has Mac, then both for laptops, and then all 4 for Developer's version of Oolite)

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
ClymAngus's Keyboard Overlays (just stick them on!)

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:14 pm

montana05 wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 12:55 am

montana05

Sorry, can't help here much. It's a long time since I used a German keyboard, my current one is basically US with the local letters included by switch.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:43 am

We all do things differently - and there is a lot of information out there.

Indeed, but as I have been trying to say, I am having difficulty understanding the question you are asking.

Can I in some way help you with whatever you are trying to achieve?