Oolite Bulletins

How do the scoops "work" in-game?

ie: What actually allows something to be scooped? Is it size? Is it mass? Is it some javascript tag in the description? I've never tried it, but could I scoop a Coriolis station? And if not, why not?

phkb wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:54 pm

I always assumed that the "scoop" operated by firstly dragging the item to be scooped to within range, and then initiating a low-power transmat to transfer the item to the hold. This also matches up with what you see in the game, if you have an external view while scooping items.

hiran wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 4:17 pm

The scoop is unlike a simple spoon a more or less smart and delicate divide that identifies the to-be-scooped object's appearance and then follows a well-thought through plan to apply some nifty precision moves to fold that object into a scooopable size.

That way even objects appearing to be bigger than the scooping ship can be scooped and transported.

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Cholmondely wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:05 pm

It highlights the absurdity of the Cobra MkIII scooping up Thargons (unless one is flying backwards, maybe...).

Sorry - forgot to mention ... "with a rear-mounted scoop"
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Redspear wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:18 pm

A quick visual representation of 'crude size'
....I could have estimated the thargoid but I think my earlier table entry forgot to account for space required to hold thargons (10TC should be plenty)...

black outline is for 35TC cobra ->

... What did surprise me somewhat however was how little difference a 35TC capacity would make to the cobra mk III - it just looks to have put on some weight (see shadow outline).

Don't know but I'm pretty sure it's not size - you can scoop a thargon but not a worm.

Suspect it might have to with 'role'. If true then that could be interesting as a coriolis station with 'role = alloy' might be scoopable (only to be transfomed instantly into 1TC of alloys...)

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:09 pm

How do the scoops "work" in-game?

ie: What actually allows something to be scooped? Is it size? Is it mass? Is it some javascript tag in the description? I've never tried it, but could I scoop a Coriolis station? And if not, why not?
the hold. This also matches up with what you see in the game, if you have an external view while scooping items.

CLASS_CARGO - white on scanner, can be scooped, does not masslock

You can scoop a Worm, as proofed in SIRF.

montana05 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:56 am

CLASS_CARGO - white on scanner, can be scooped, does not masslock

That sounds right.

montana05 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:56 am

You can scoop a Worm, as proofed in SIRF.

That however does not unless that oxp resets the scan class.

I've seen lots of worms launch from stations over many iterations of oolite and I always recall them as yellow blips (scan class neutral). I've even recoloured said blip according to its size and lack of hyperdrive.

So when you scoop a worm in SIRF how is it recorded in your cargo and what happens when you eject it?

Redspear wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:16 am

That however does not unless that oxp resets the scan class.

I've seen lots of worms launch from stations over many iterations of oolite and I always recall them as yellow blips (scan class neutral). I've even recoloured said blip according to its size and lack of hyperdrive.

So when you scoop a worm in SIRF how is it recorded in your cargo and what happens when you eject it?

Well, you are correct, this Worm acts as a lifeboat of the station and therefore is handled similar to an escape pod. The core Worm is a ship and can't be scooped.

montana05 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:06 pm

this Worm acts as a lifeboat of the station and therefore is handled similar to an escape pod.

I think the neolites do something similar with the 'skiffs' for the boas...

I wonder if it's worth me scripting scan class according to player ship size??? Then anaconda pilots could scoop worms or maybe even a viper but the asp could do no such thing. Need to find out if I can change how much space they occupy when scooped...

Meanwhile, somebody scoop a coriolis and post it in screenshots if you can

Redspear wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:41 pm

Meanwhile, somebody scoop a coriolis and post it in screenshots if you can

It would be worth a try, I never tried to create a scoopable station, but it would be a good laugh. Maybe with a small script, awarding enough goods to fill your cargo space.

montana05 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:24 pm

I never tried to create a scoopable station, but it would be a good laugh.

While you're at it, give it a hyperspace motor - see how big/long-lasting a wormhole it creates.

montana05 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:24 pm

I never tried to create a scoopable station, but it would be a good laugh. Maybe with a small script, awarding enough goods to fill your cargo space.

Cody wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:55 pm

While you're at it, give it a hyperspace motor - see how big/long-lasting a wormhole it creates.

So we try to scoop a coriolis (torus station, you're next - no one is safe ) in a... worm.

Then we fill up a trader from another coriolis' stocks, get the coriolis to hyperspace out and see if the wormhole's still there when we return for (what would have been) the next leg of the milk run!

(It likely won't be once the player leaves the system but we could test it's duration against the player clock)

All hypothetical wastes of time but then fun arguably is the very best way to waste time

It's the sort of trick I'd throw at the player at the end of a tough mission OXP.
Luckily, I don't make mission OXPs - or any OXPs, for that matter!

Redspear wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:41 pm

I wonder if it's worth me scripting scan class according to player ship size???

I think it is a good idea. It would also make sense that the price of the scoop should vary according to size.

Cholmondely wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:47 pm

I think it is a good idea. It would also make sense that the price of the scoop should vary according to size.

It does make sense but does it make a good game?

I suppose that in this example it would actually do more and therefore be a superior piece of equipment, thereby justifying a higher price.

Unlike say an extra energy unit which does the same on any ship; yes we could justify a larger ship requiring a larger unit in order to achieve the same effect but we've then added complexity rather than fun.

Imagine a boa then, capable of scooping a worm. If it can scoop a ship then should it be masslocked by said ship? Easiest scripting answer would be: no, it shouldn't.

"Captain, we just lost our front shield."

"What happened? We're still using the jump drive aren't we?"

"Yes Captain. It seems we hit something."

"...Remind me again what we pay you for Lieutenant..."

"Er... Seems it was a Worm Sir. Front shield recharging Sir"

"(sighs) Any other vessels in range?"

"No Sir. Completely clear Sir"

"Full speed ahead Lieutenant"

"Yes Captain!"

Redspear wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:41 pm

I wonder if it's worth me scripting scan class according to player ship size??? Then anaconda pilots could scoop worms or maybe even a viper but the asp could do no such thing. Need to find out if I can change how much space they occupy when scooped...

There might be some odd side-effects though. If smaller ships are classed as cargo, because you're flying a large freighter, won't NPCs also see them as cargo, and try to scoop them? And if a small ship is trying to attack you, can the scanner handle the task of displaying it as hostile cargo?

Cheers
John

JD wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:42 pm

There might be some odd side-effects though.

Side effects are often a risk and your questions are good ones I think.

JD wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:42 pm

If smaller ships are classed as cargo, because you're flying a large freighter, won't NPCs also see them as cargo, and try to scoop them?

Yes, this could be a problem. Most ridiculous situation perhaps being a worm scooping another worm.
Solution might be to change their scan class (to cargo) only when they are within very short range relative to the player ship and change it back when they are not.

JD wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:42 pm

And if a small ship is trying to attack you, can the scanner handle the task of displaying it as hostile cargo?

Scan class can be independant from scan colour it's just that they pair up by default.

JD wrote: ↑Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:42 pm

There might be some odd side-effects though. If smaller ships are classed as cargo, because you're flying a large freighter, won't NPCs also see them as cargo, and try to scoop them? And if a small ship is trying to attack you, can the scanner handle the task of displaying it as hostile cargo?

This would be a new maneuver in hostile encounters.

One option is to fight.
One option is to evade.
The third could be to scoop the attacker...

And it would allow something like hijacking missions.