OXPs - Strategic thinking!

[Cholmondely]

E:D came out at the end of 2014
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I'd just like to brainstorm a little about the OXP situation.

We have maybe 1000 of these knocking around.

On the Expansions List we have roughly:

24 activities
157 ambiences
24 dockables
112 equipments
38 HUDs/MFDs
80 Mechanics
24 Miscellaneous
34 Missions
58 Retextures
116 Ships
6 Systems
18 Weapons

Now these numbers are of course slightly misleading, there are some duplicates, there are some which need the second 'fix'.oxp to run, there are some meta-OXPs (Smivs, Norby ...). And the categories that some have ended up in is whimsical.


We have several separate games so to speak: the Elite Trader OXP suite, Strangers World, and Cim's two SOTL games.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I would like to propose that we also produce some new meta-OXPs.

One for rank beginners to help teach the game.
One for people with lousy combat skills
One for people with top-notch combat skills
One for people who want top-notch graphics
A Lave OXP with the various Lave addon's - updated for v.1.90 graphics! And Diso. And Tianve.

Several for populating the different galaxies with different ships/buoys/stations etc.


And, is there any way we can get our Navies up and running? HIMSN? Galactic Navy (which pervades the bally wiki and has been jolly well bust for yonks!)?

Ideally I'd like to see some System Navies which can fight each other with the player caught in the middle. Giving some teeth to Diplomancy, so to speak.


Any thoughts? is this all pie in the sky? Reasonable? Too humdrum? A waste of time and effort?
[/quote]

The above is from my inaugural post, since I have the top post on this page too!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

From the last post in this thread on the previous page...

My first impression, 5 mounts fore, 5 mounts rear, turrets port and starboard.

An Orion-class and its 4 (or 5) Constrictors would make a formidable little squadron!

Iff the pilots knew what they were doing!

[Cody]

Iff the pilots knew what they were doing!

I think the AI in HIMSN would be good enough!


A poll? How spiffing!

[cbr]

If I'd been designing HIMSN (which I wasn't, of course - that would've been way beyond me), I'd have wanted it to be a small navy that punched well above its weight. For heavy fighters, I'd have used Griff's Constrictors, and for Capital ships, I'd have had Orion-class Destroyers. I once asked a shipwright to create a custom model for me, but I can't find it (I suspect it's on an old HDD which no longer spins). Untextured, it looked like this:



To give an idea of its size, those recesses near the bow would have been docking bays for Constrictors.
Along the sides would've been point-defence turrets (probably plasma cannons).

Certainly an interesting design, no lasers a few turrets and banks of missiles, bucketloads of energy and the constrictors as escorts, wow...

[Cody]

Certainly an interesting design, no lasers...

Main armament would a Class-I Naval Laser, mounted in the centre of the nose cone (which is heavily reinforced and shielded).

[montana05]

So ... we could maybe have a Sothis-style override for GN fixing the markets? ... Is anything else broken? I just read it was broken and never took it any further, being incapable of doing anything about it!

Fixing the market is pretty simple, we just need an overwrite. Either by using Spara's market script or adding a complete new market it shouldn't take longer than 1 h, including tests.

Just remembered this conversation, so if we create a new market what a navy station would need ? My first guess would be firearms, alien items, food, textiles, maybe some machinery and computers. What would be your suggestion ?

Btw, I think it would make the most sense to add this override to already existing ones, maybe Sparas Galactic Navy Facelift OXP.

[Cholmondely]

So ... we could maybe have a Sothis-style override for GN fixing the markets? ... Is anything else broken? I just read it was broken and never took it any further, being incapable of doing anything about it!

Fixing the market is pretty simple, we just need an overwrite. Either by using Spara's market script or adding a complete new market it shouldn't take longer than 1 h, including tests.

Just remembered this conversation, so if we create a new market what a navy station would need ? My first guess would be firearms, alien items, food, textiles, maybe some machinery and computers. What would be your suggestion ?

Btw, I think it would make the most sense to add this override to already existing ones, maybe Sparas Galactic Navy Facelift OXP.

1) I would suppose that it depends on what they get up to in the station! Is it primarily a barracks with recreational facilities? Or a repair shed for the ships? A research facility? Or regimental headquarters where they entertain in great style? And if not all 4 of these, then where else do they have their barracks/repair shed/regimental HQ. Do the servicemen/creatures have spouses and children? ... and where do they live? And is there a fourth possibility which in my ignorance I've ignored?

If a repair shed element is included, are they are manufacturing (need alloys & machinery) or just importing parts and sticking them on where needed (just need "machinery" or maybe a less raw variety of "alloy").

So presuming alloys (in whatever version) are a necessity, we have:
Barracks + HQ: Food & Wine/Liquers (oodles imported)/Luxuries/gems (small quantities?). Textiles/Gemstones&jewellery if families live there too. Quirium Fuel (unless they harvest it themselves ...!).
Repair shed: Alloys (oodles), machinery (oodles), computers (small quantities), alien items (small quantities), platinum (small quantities)
Research: computers, alien items, (gold, platinum, some gemstones ?).

I have no feel for any of this having never played with the GN. My Isinor is devoid of these chaps/chapettes!


2) No preference as to where the update goes, as long as it does. (unless it matters vitally in some way I can't visualise!). Once it is out, it can always be tweaked.

It would be nice eventually to have some graphics for it - a naval launch tunnel sequence, a naval welcome screen, maybe another interior or two (I'm presuming that none of this exists in the OXP). But they are hardly the priority.

Working ships and working station are the minimum, no? And from what you said we are almost there! How super! ... and how sad that somebody didn't cotton on to all this years ago! With the other stuff worked out, maybe someone would have worked out whatever thorny AI issues need polishing off...


What can I do to help?

[montana05]

1) I would suppose that it depends on what they get up to in the station! Is it primarily a barracks with recreational facilities? Or a repair shed for the ships? A research facility? Or regimental headquarters where they entertain in great style? And if not all 4 of these, then where else do they have their barracks/repair shed/regimental HQ. Do the servicemen/creatures have spouses and children? ... and where do they live? And is there a fourth possibility which in my ignorance I've ignored?

If a repair shed element is included, are they are manufacturing (need alloys & machinery) or just importing parts and sticking them on where needed (just need "machinery" or maybe a less raw variety of "alloy").

So presuming alloys are a necessity, we have:
Barracks + HQ: Food & Wine/Liquers (oodles imported)/Luxuries/gems (small quantities?). Textiles/Gemstones&jewellery if families live there too. Quirium Fuel (unless they harvest it themselves ...!).
Repair shed: Alloys (oodles), machinery (oodles), computers (small quantities), alien items (small quantities), platinum (small quantities)
Research: computers, alien items, (gold, platinum, some gemstones ?).

I have no feel for any of this having never played with the GN. My Isinor is devoid of these chaps/chapettes!

Let's see, they are sector-commands in friendly territory, located close to the main planet and therefore the main station (GalCop). Would repair facilities be included ? Most likely. Families of stationed staff ? Probably. R&R for crew members on a break ? I doubt so, you have a GalCop station and a planet nearby. However, the demand will be more than my first guess

2) No preference as to where the update goes, as long as it does. (unless it matters vitally in some way I can't visualise!). Once it is out, it can always be tweaked.

It would be nice eventually to have some graphics for it - a naval launch tunnel sequence, a naval welcome screen, maybe another interior or two (I'm presuming that none of this exists in the OXP). But they are hardly the priority.

Working ships and working station are the minimum, no? And from what you said we are almost there! How super! ... and how sad that somebody didn't cotton on to all this years ago! With the other stuff worked out, maybe someone would have worked out whatever thorny AI issues need polishing off...

Welcome screen is included in the original OXP, tunnel, I believe, in Facelift. If not, no problem I have one.

What can I do to help?

For now just share your creativity with me, new ideas are always helpful.

[Cholmondely]

1) I would suppose that it depends on what they get up to in the station! Is it primarily a barracks with recreational facilities? Or a repair shed for the ships? A research facility? Or regimental headquarters where they entertain in great style? And if not all 4 of these, then where else do they have their barracks/repair shed/regimental HQ. Do the servicemen/creatures have spouses and children? ... and where do they live? And is there a fifth possibility which in my ignorance I've ignored?

If a repair shed element is included, are they are manufacturing (need alloys & machinery) or just importing parts and sticking them on where needed (just need "machinery" or maybe a less raw variety of "alloy").

So presuming alloys are a necessity, we have:
Barracks + HQ: Food & Wine/Liquers (oodles imported)/Luxuries/gems (small quantities?). Textiles/Gemstones&jewellery if families live there too. Quirium Fuel (unless they harvest it themselves ...!).
Repair shed: Alloys (oodles), machinery (oodles), computers (small quantities), alien items (small quantities), platinum (small quantities)
Research: computers, alien items, (gold, platinum, some gemstones ?).

Let's see, they are sector-commands in friendly territory, located close to the main planet and therefore the main station (GalCop). Would repair facilities be included ? Most likely. Families of stationed staff ? Probably. R&R for crew members on a break ? I doubt so, you have a GalCop station and a planet nearby. However, the demand will be more than my first guess

Apologies... forgot the OXP commodities.

Witchfire Whisky - a luxury, treated as above
Quirium Fuel - as fuel above
Quirium Crystal - far be it from me to opine before their creator!
Oxygen - demand
Fresh water - demand
Medicine - demand

[montana05]

Next try:

Firearms and alien items:
Give us all you have, we need guns and all alien technology we could get our hands on. Doesn't matter if a research facility is included, we could ship them later.

Food and textiles:
We got a lot of mouth to feed and new uniforms or cloth for our families are always in demand.

Wine/liquers, witchfire whisky, luxuries, gemstones & jewellery:
We need some, you see there are civilians on this base.

Quirium fuel, oxygen, fresh water, medicine:
It's a space-station, so we need some of that.

Alloys, machinery, computers, platinum, quirium crystal:
We do repair our ships here so sometimes we use all of it.

Narcotics:
Small amounts are requested and high prices are paid.

Sounds better ?

[Cholmondely]

Next try:

Firearms and alien items:
Give us all you have, we need guns and all alien technology we could get our hands on. Doesn't matter if a research facility is included, we could ship them later.

Food and textiles:
We got a lot of mouth to feed and new uniforms or cloth for our families are always in demand.

Wine/liquers, witchfire whisky, luxuries, gemstones & jewellery:
We need some, you see there are civilians on this base.

Quirium fuel, oxygen, fresh water, medicine:
It's a space-station, so we need some of that.

Alloys, machinery, computers, platinum, quirium crystal:
We do repair our ships here so sometimes we use all of it.

Narcotics:
Small amounts are requested and high prices are paid.

Sounds better ?

Firearms. Illegal. And the GN can buy them legally from the manufacturers, and, buying them in bulk can - in theory - get better deals. Better as a source for a mission - get the plans from Prof X in anarchy Y's university ... or something along those lines. Alien Items, agree.

Food, agree. Textiles for families, yes. Uniforms, no, surely. Would they not be made by special factories catering to the navy?

Wine/liquers, witchfire whisky, luxuries, gemstones & jewellery: Agree

Quirium fuel, oxygen, fresh water, medicine: Agree. Except possibly the fuel. Some (not all) bases, rather than buying it in, might send disobedient cadets on sunskimming expeditions in special sun-skimming craft.

... But decide what is easiest to programme now. It can always be tweaked later...

Alloys, machinery, computers, platinum, quirium crystal: Agree. Unaware that Quirium Crystal also had industrial applications, but it is 5-dimensional, and I didn't invent it!

Narcotics: Again, disagree. Illegal. They would get it from specially authorised factories.

I can't see the GN getting involved in illegal transactions. They need to get their funding from System Governments via an enfeebled GalCop. If they are caught flouting the law, they won't get their funding. they can't afford to be seen getting involved in that sort of thing.

You say that there are other minor issues with GN. If you can publish the override sooner so that it is up, it can always be tweaked/improved later, at leisure.

[Cholmondely]

Order of priorities.
1) GN override - hopefully an easy fix for the most serious issues.
2) Other stuff to be decided.

I would like to propose that we also produce some new meta-OXPs.

One for rank beginners to help teach the game.
One for people with lousy combat skills
One for people with top-notch combat skills
One for people who want top-notch graphics
A Lave OXP with the various Lave addon's - updated for v.1.90 graphics! And Diso. And Tianve.

Several for populating the different galaxies with different ships/buoys/stations etc.


And, is there any way we can get our Navies up and running? HIMSN? Galactic Navy (which pervades the bally wiki and has been jolly well bust for yonks!)?

Ideally I'd like to see some System Navies which can fight each other with the player caught in the middle. Giving some teeth to Diplomancy, so to speak.

I want to do my Starters meta-data OXP. I hope it should be easy-ish.

Then, I think a revamp of the Lave OXP would be super!

And then start chipping away at others as we and our community see as making sense!

Would there be point in updating this?

Lave OXP: we have such superb material for Lave.

Lave is the System where we begin the standard game... and we already have our Academy!

Lave is the system where HIMSN is based (and we have the ships and textures).

We have DAJT's monument (untouched since 2006)!

We have Stranger's superb new planet texture!

Could we put together a new Lave.OXP which would combine the above with this OXP (Single Moon - with the Empress's palace?), instructor & trainees & advertising droids?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

1) Would we really need to bother updating the instructors/trinkets etc? It would make sense that they use clunky-looking ships.

2) Would we want some new Lave-specific ads? (The only part I could meaningfully contribute to at the moment)

3) Could we tweak the monument in any way to make it interact with the player?

4) Would it make sense to add a HIMSN naval base?

5) Some sort of traffic between planet/naval base and the Moon Palace?

6) Would we want a Lave which is limited to just the one sun, one planet and the one peculiar moon (as in the Lore)? Or would we want a more complex solar system?

7) Add some more orbital stations? And maybe some sort of interaction with the player?
1) On starting. Say two starting missions, one for a law-abiding player and another for someone less scrupulous?
2) On returning, presumably with a better equipped ship?

• Is there anything else we might wish to add to the mix?

Again. Two stage process. Quick, fast and nasty update with the essentials (FPO Lave + Lave OXP + Monument + Academy). Then at length, tweaking to perfection (getting the moon to move, inscribing some names on the Memorial, HIMSN, etc). Wouldn't it be fun to have Mr Gimlet haranguing the new student as he takes possession of his new ship!
_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Lave OXPs
* Lave OXP: single "fake" moon, restaurant ships, instructor & trinkets, advertising droid, Lave bumped from TL5 to TL8
* Lave Academy
* Monument: either close to sun or in orbit around planet depending on sun distance
* FPO Lave: new Lave texture for v.1.90
* PSLave (Planet Scanner) & Far Planets create other planets in the Lave System
* Lave is Earth: A_C_'s planetary texture demonstration

Lave Lore sources (contradictory!)
* Dark Wheel
* Imprint
* Drew's Oolite novels
* Selezen's work - see Lave page on wiki
* Rough Guide (Disembodied)

Personally I'd vote for Disembodied's Lave Lore source interpretation (he's the only one still regularly with us!), and try and fit in the others if they work with his.

[phkb]

We have Stranger's superb new planet texture!

If you mean the "LaveIsEarth" OXP, that was a_c, not Stranger. Just for reference.

[Cholmondely]

We have Stranger's superb new planet texture!

If you mean the "LaveIsEarth" OXP, that was a_c, not Stranger. Just for reference.

No, I meant Stranger's FPO Lave.

[phkb]

No, I meant Stranger's FPO Lave.

Ah! Got it.

[montana05]

Firearms. Illegal. And the GN can buy them legally from the manufacturers, and, buying them in bulk can - in theory - get better deals.

Good point, we scratch firearms.

Uniforms, no, surely. Would they not be made by special factories catering to the navy?

Not necessarily, some forces are provided locally rather than central. However, the market still remains the same.

Except possibly the fuel. Some (not all) bases, rather than buying it in, might send disobedient cadets on sunskimming expeditions in special sun-skimming craft.

Disciplinary for cadets ? Good idea, we scratch fuel.

Unaware that Quirium Crystal also had industrial applications, but it is 5-dimensional, and I didn't invent it!

Necessary for 5D technology, for example hyperdrives or hyper-radios.

Narcotics: Again, disagree. Illegal. They would get it from specially authorised factories.

I can't see the GN getting involved in illegal transactions. They need to get their funding from System Governments via an enfeebled GalCop. If they are caught flouting the law, they won't get their funding. they can't afford to be seen getting involved in that sort of thing.

I had some cadets in mind, looking for "recreational" drugs under the table. For the official market you are correct.