JB WIP thread: several ships

[Duggan]

Looking forward very much to a release of any of these .....

[maik]

Looking forward very much to a release of any of these .....

Me too. I like the high quality of the models!

[Day]

Would it be possible to have a space elevator, pretty please ?
https://bb.oolite.space/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18876

technically it is possible with some kind of tether to a satellite in geosynchronous orbit, and probably would not be difficult to model at all, but at the same token it might be more in line with the technology of oolite/elite to go with a compromise of sorts and make it an anti gravity space elevator? less possibility of catastrophic failure, more possibility for adjusting aim to the end point? not sure, however on the artistic level it would eliminate the need for a cable texture, even if mechanically (game mechanics wise) there is a straight path from the ground to the end point.

i have no idea how it all fits into the lore, and i am sure there are those that want some sort of space elevator oxp, but for now that is something i will probably shelve until i am finished with the growing list of models i still have to do, and the textures, not to mention actually getting them in the game period (which tends to highlight bugs) so yeah...

[jackiebean]

hey guys. i know i have been absent for some time, not intentionally, but life seems to do that just when we are having fun. anyway, i dont want to make any promises about productivity, so instead i have a partial explanation. with all the web updates being pushed lately, especially browsers, my productivity has ground to a standstill problem solving that, and i have downgraded from firefox quantum to a much earlier version because linux will not let me roll back to the last best configuration. so i have been looking for suitable alternatives for security reasons (vulnerabilities) and i do have several other derivatives installed. talk about a headache. so instead of staying on topic here, and providing new models, i have to play IT tech. very time consuming. turns out the only way to get back to firefox 56 is to go ahead and uninstall a crap load of other updates and then see if i can get my funtionality somewhat back. until then the closest i can get outside of mozilla control is waterfox, which is about at the firefox 55.2 build. ugh.

anyway, that is not the whole reason, i have a real job as well and it has been hectic lately, so that leaves little time to shift focus to building lovely space ships. and instead i have to trouble shoot every new update that breaks something else i had just the way i liked. (plugins etc) and that goes for more than just firefox, it seems to creep into other things as well.

as far as the models go, if anyone would like to help out putting them in the game i would greatly appreciate it. and as always i really like suggestions and requests for any ships that people are interested in seeing updated.

i have to figure out where i was last, and that means digging through all my drives to find out. (does not correlate to the thread very well) although i do remember i was going to revamp some of my commie designs that were a little too clunky.

[Astrobe]

Welcome back! I'm no good with 2D/3D stuff, but I think I can help with the plist files (never did for ships/stations though) and OXZ bundling.

[jackiebean]

Welcome back! I'm no good with 2D/3D stuff, but I think I can help with the plist files (never did for ships/stations though) and OXZ bundling.

thanks for the offer. i will be shooting you a PM in the near future!

[jackiebean]

Ok good people. Since this thread has pretty much just been a showcase of what i am willing to offer in the realm of modeling, and eventually it will showcase textures, that being said, it is not yet, nor promised that it will be a representation of everything that will end up in the game. The reason why i am saying this is because i want to be conscientious to the concerns of any of the original authors of works i am basing these models on. I realize it is up to me to approach each individual author, and explain what my intent is by offering new models and textures, but prior to that i want to make it clear here, that i do not intend to overshadow any previous work, only to offer optional models and textures to some really great OXPs out there, and possibly in the future the models may be up for a resource for new OXPs. But that lays entirely on the shoulders of the authors in question. any new models created using the old models from the original game series, or its spinoffs as a template, will simply be replacers at the discretion of the end user, or new OXPs that offer the ship as a new reimagined version of any of the retro models. any of the models based on newly authored OXPs (in contrast to things that were in the original elite game) where the author/s designed the models, those will not be released unless the author is ok with them being in their OXP and only after it is released as such will there be a possibility they will be up as a resource, which is entirely at the discretion of the original author (such as kiota or other similar OXPs)

so far, some of the authors have come to me in PMs and are ecstatic about these models, and are eagerly awaiting them. however i do realize, and it would be remiss of me to ignore that there could be objections to what i am doing. so i am extending good will to anyone that could possibly object to it and welcome any and all feedback either here, or in my PMs.

i have spoken of some of my concerns with Astrobe who has graciously lent me his ear on this, and offered to help with any scripting and plists. one of my main concerns though is moving on to the next stage of some of these so there is a working proof of concept for one of the simpler models and textures to replace. any of the more complex ones, such as modular stations will have to wait. the more complex and the more original the work, the more pitfalls are potential.

my main concern as far as mechanics goes, is how the game actually indicates to the models, how they will assemble, such as if there is a ship with one or more turrets, what does the code say that tells the turret where to go? does it simply target a dummy? or does it target a vertices? this may not seem important, but it could mean i have to backtrack and redo my ambient occlusion textures based on where the turret actually ends up, and those coordinates are very critical. it would look terrible if the shadows created by the AO rendering would fall any place other than where they should be. turrets, and modular stations for example would actually be effected by this based on the coordinates the scripting gives to the individual parts (models) assembled by the game to give us the complete model in game. so understanding how this behaves, and obeying the rules of the game itself is critical when it comes to locating parts on the model to replicate how it will be assembled in the game. then i can bake the AO texture and really get down to business on making textures that will work with very little effort instead of backtracking 100 times to make things fit. with simpler ships, those without turrets, this will not be an issue. even if they have multiple parts, as long as they are all in the same group that imports to the game as one model.

i have also stopped for the time being posting new pictures of models i have been working on due to the concern that may be unfounded, that any original author may object to new models being offered as an alternative in their OXP. since i have to approach them first before continuing, this has simply been a showcase of potential. as i said before, any objections should be raised now. that is not an ultimatum, it is just that i want to make sure i am not stepping on anyone's toes. in a practical sense it would mean that instead of working on things that wont gain any traction, i can focus on elements that will more than likely end up being included for the user in the future. granted, as a model and texture offering only, this would not negate their work at all, simply it would be an option for the end user depending on their play style, whether they prefer retro models or modernized ones. my opinion is that choices are cool, and restrictions are not so cool, but not everyone may share that sentiment. so i am not asking to use their work, simply offering to compliment it for the sake of the end user who may want that option.

this is not a blanket permission request either, however it would be awesome if authors did chime in and voice their opinions here so we can continue discussing it in PMs. if you know of any authors, and you read this thread regularly, then feel free to approach them as well and make sure they get to read this. sometimes my creative juices get in the way of the particulars and i can lose track of what belongs to who. of course it would be simple to look up names in the ships list, and i will do that eventually, but if anyone wants to beat me to the punch, they are more than welcome.

anyone who has already approached me in this thread who is either working on an OXP update/modernization, or has breifly mentioned their interest in doing that in this thread and are eager to collaborate using models showcased here, is welcome to PM me as well so i can start to create a spreadsheet of ships that are being worked on and are in various stages of development. i would rather start to work on some of the ships that are being waited on, and prioritizing those will be based on actual need, or demand. if there is little demand, or there are more obstacles in the way, those will be put in a holding pattern.

as with any project, one person can't do everything alone, and things can sadly come to a grinding halt (which has happened many times in my experience) i would rather that not happen.

[Astrobe]

One question I wanted to ask to the community at one point is: would you consider it ok to re-make an OXP?

For instance, suppose Wildships OXP is no longer maintained (didn't check if it is - it's just an example). Jackiebean has some new models for the stations and perhaps the ships as well. Would it be ok if we make sort of a "Wildships II" with those new models and scripts that would mostly be equivalent to the original (I'm taking the worst case scenario of old unlicensed works) or would it be considered bad manner?

PS: as far as I know turrets and other moving/removable parts are done with subentities. I have no experience with them, so on this topic there's certainly more helpful people than me.

[montana05]

One question I wanted to ask to the community at one point is: would you consider it ok to re-make an OXP?

In my opinion it would be a benefit for Oolite to upgrade "old" OXPs. Galactic Navy Additions is an example for
such an improvement so to preserve no longer maintained work from getting obsolete a "Version II" would be the right thing to do.

[Smivs]

With regards to turrets and modular entities, the positioning is specified in shipdata.plist.
A position relative to the centre point of the 'mother' model is specified, and the centre point of the subentity is then located at this point.

[jackiebean]

With regards to turrets and modular entities, the positioning is specified in shipdata.plist.
A position relative to the centre point of the 'mother' model is specified, and the centre point of the subentity is then located at this point.

Ok smivs, that answered the question, and i think that to get the coordinates to work right i may have to actually create a specific vertices where that turret subentity should go, and i think i have just the method for it. in my newer models i have introduced turret bases. the cool thing about those is they can be part of the ship 'mother' model (if my understanding of the models i have looked at is correct.) and give and exact coordinate for the turret subentity. that will solve both problems. however if any bits that get pasted to the ship hull are also considered subentities, then we still have a problem lol. that could introduce a new layer of complexity, attaching subentities to the hull and further subentities to those subentities could be confusing.

i have already put a spreadsheet together of the ships and stations i have built, and there are quite a few left to do according to that list (some i missed in my rush) so far the ones that have new models in various stages number at about 84ish. that is both stations and ships. could actually be a bit more by the time it is all done. more ships than stations though.

in the spreadsheet i have various columns, as in name of the ship, who made the original OXP, whether there is permission to continue, and stage of completion columns, and also one for bugs.

once i get most of the details ironed out in the spreadsheet, i was thinking of posting it somewhere to keep a record available of progress, but not sure how to do that in a way that is viewable and editable by other people. anyway.

and anyone please feel free to chime in on this topic.

[jackiebean]

ok guys and gals. i have been busy to say the least. was off the webs for a while, but while i was off, i got carple tunnel from all the models i was making and texturing. in short i went back to the drawing board and reworked just about all the models i could, and made some new ones too. so far i have got several of them textured, but still so far to go.

what has been textured are the anarches models (including the stations and some of griffs ships with alternate textures like hognose, and a pirate python) i redid the salvager phoenix, the drive (drop) and the rotor(drop). i also added a new model. the golem fighter. since the name of phoenix kind of hints that the ship came from tricking out an old wrecked ship and remaking it into something new, i have that, the phonex version of the fighter, and a cockpit forward redesign that is more for salvaging than any thing else. i suppose a mining version of that would be fun too.

i redid the cauceus completely, new model and textured too.

i suppose i could post some pics here soon, but for now i just want to drop in and touch base.

working on a new version of clippers too, whihc simply adds on some new subents to each kind of clipper. also doing the x versions of some ships (python, asp, cobra etc). since they are probably experimental versions, they have additional sensors and improved power couplings for guns and engines etc. they are based on the spara versions, but updated to fit right in with the stock griff models.

also on the list is a total revamp of behemoths, and i promise everyone will really like the direction i went with those. the lrc, and lbc are also completely redone.

added are going to be some expansion ships based on all the elite games (excluding dangerous): things like the merlin, the imperial explorer, the lanner series, moccasin, and a whole host of other polygonal ships with an updated look.

so why rework everything? well it became very obvious after texturing the anarchies hermits, that i would have to simplify the models quite a bit, and so i began to study griffs models. once i did that and worked out the art style better, i began to get a lot closer to his templates even for the more original ships i started, so... it became clear that to keep them from braking continuity, i would have to start over. not completely, but i had to do some destructive remodeling to get the desired results. then i can focus on having a much easier time texturing the models.

anyway. i will return with a few pics of what i have done.

[phkb]

Great to see you again, jackiebean! If you need some testers, or help with creating expansion packs, I'm sure there will be some of us around to assist. Take care of yourself, though.

[jackiebean]

pics of ships. will also post link to gallery. images links fixed

[jackiebean]

gallery link

https://postimg.cc/gallery/pzt8854s/

those are just some of the ships believe it or not.

i will probably post more of the station updates later. i also have a new addition to the current selection of stations as well. it is called the rock bishop. basically what would happen once someone started to expand structures outside of an asteroid instead of keeping them inside it. they will usually be found outside of the densest parts of asteroid fields. kind of a trade waystation for all kinds of travellers and activity. like the shopping mall of space.

i also have a bunch of new additions to the lave academy. the academy gate is redone, but in addition to it there are also going to be a station and museum. thinking of making the museum another place where you can buy rare upgrades (museum artifacts) figured something like a die roll script will determine whether or not the item is really worth using or trading or not. the centerpiece of the station is an old galactic navy destroyer that was turned into a carrier, one of the first experimental ones in space. the model may also be used as a derelict in old battle graveyards near salvagers, as well as some of them being taken over by pirates and turned into bases.

also came up with a colorful back story to the whole behemoth/carrier thing. the history of the navy experimenting with the idea and commissioning the building of them.