Oolite 2.0 or II
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 5:21 pm
Quoted from This thread:
A) If people agree on these points (I do for the most part),
B) If people see other "gameplay" problems that need to be fixed.
Next, I'd love to see people interested in this topic to propose a set of changes that solve the issues. Those topics have been discussed in the original thread and certainly other threads, but I think "linear" forums like this one don't help with seeing the big picture. I think we should even consider using the Wiki for this.
Depending on the set of changes we want to make, and what solutions we come up with, the result could be Oolite 2.0 or Oolite II. But maybe we can also be almost there with some scripting API support and a consistent set of OXPs (probably the best outcome).
I think we have to agree on what the problems are/what needs to be improved in order to reach consensus on what to do. So I'd like to know:cim wrote:I would say regarding Oolite's balance and general playability that there are three general strands of thought for what sort of game Oolite should be:
- as faithful a reimplementation as possible of the original Elites (inc Elite+) on modern hardware
- a modern reimplementation of Elite with its own extensions and feel
- a space trading-combat game loosely in the spirit of Elite
Generally I think in practice it fits somewhere between the 1st and the 2nd, and given what the project is moves towards the 3rd would be immensely controversial.
On the other hand, I think the 3rd is probably necessary to make any significant progress on these problems - an Oolite II rather than an Oolite 2.0 which started with far more of a blank slate, because a lot of the current issues are inherited from the bits of the 1984 version it would feel most wrong to move away from for Oolite (or, at least, one would never get any consensus about how to move away from them).
1) The map scatters safe and dangerous systems largely randomly, so you can in practice see basically all the game without ever leaving the Old Worlds.
2) The trade goods are pretty boring and don't take system danger into account, and there's really only two economy types and one plausible trade good each way
3) Ship equipment is by far the most significant factor in quality - a fully equipped Cobra III is virtually impossible to kill, whereas a stock one is a tough challenge to survive in even for a top pilot. (Injectors are particularly crucial in this respect)
4) Ship specs and design is still based around the player only ever actually flying the Cobra III
5) Every ship is multi-role, and most of them are terrible at it. Freighters like the Python and Boa are basically just much bigger versions of the Mamba or Sidewinder - they fly about the same, they're just slightly tougher (and not even that much tougher). Compare with something like Tie Fighter or Freespace where a freighter is very definitely not a slightly bigger fighter.
6) Changes in graphics resolution since the 1980s have meant the particular scale choices and the game mechanics resulting from them which worked then work much less well now.
7) Missiles basically have the same problem the Energy Bomb had, weapon balance in general is still based very strongly on the original.
Interactions with NPCs are basically "shoot/flee" or "ignore", and a clean player will be picking "ignore" almost all the time.
9) Game balance strongly encourages keeping clean status - piracy is not really a supported career beyond a very basic being possible, smuggling anything except Narcotics is less profitable than honest trading, and a Fugitive status will clear back down to Offender on one jump.
10) Ships (other than the player ship) are essentially either fully capable or dead.
11) Once a fight is started, it basically must end in the destruction of one side. (Unless you have injectors, and then you can basically leave any time you like)
Of course, if anyone wanted to go for solving those - and other - issues, it's basically all OXPable.
A) If people agree on these points (I do for the most part),
B) If people see other "gameplay" problems that need to be fixed.
Next, I'd love to see people interested in this topic to propose a set of changes that solve the issues. Those topics have been discussed in the original thread and certainly other threads, but I think "linear" forums like this one don't help with seeing the big picture. I think we should even consider using the Wiki for this.
Depending on the set of changes we want to make, and what solutions we come up with, the result could be Oolite 2.0 or Oolite II. But maybe we can also be almost there with some scripting API support and a consistent set of OXPs (probably the best outcome).